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Thread: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

  1. #41
    Junior Member writtenworlds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I have to say that's one thing I don't like about the bigger name-brand pens. Most of them don't take standard cartridges or converters, and most of them don't come with a converter, you have to buy it separately. Even when getting a really inexpensive pen like the Platinum Preppy. And being on a budget, that's just not as attractive. The squeeze-type converter like what comes with the Metropolitan isn't my favorite either, but I'm glad it at least comes with one.

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by writtenworlds View Post
    I have to say that's one thing I don't like about the bigger name-brand pens. Most of them don't take standard cartridges or converters, and most of them don't come with a converter, you have to buy it separately. Even when getting a really inexpensive pen like the Platinum Preppy. And being on a budget, that's just not as attractive. The squeeze-type converter like what comes with the Metropolitan isn't my favorite either, but I'm glad it at least comes with one.
    Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

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  3. #43
    Senior Member Tracy Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Aren't preppies easily converted to eye-dropper? That is the ultimate filling system. Love them.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member AndyT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    There's the option of using one of these to convert the Preppy to international cartridges. I'm pretty sure that last time I bought one the pen came supplied with the converter and a standard cart for some reason.

  5. #45
    Junior Member writtenworlds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.
    I've thought before about refilling cartridges as it doesn't seem like that big a hassle. Perhaps I'll have to think on it some more.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    I'm a southpaw and have, like, ten Safaris. Nooooo problemmm!
    Weighing in late, I know, but as a fellow sinistral, I've used Lamy Vistas, Al-Stars and Safaris without problems (EF, M and 1.1 nibs).

    One cheapie I don't see mentioned often here is the Schneider Base - a slightly goofy looking school pen type FP - I'm very fond of mine, although it's M nibs on these or nothing.

    As for the subject of the op, I bought a ridiculously cheap pack of Hero Jumbo 616s, and every one of those was terrific - smooth nibs, and no hard starts or skipping. (I left the one I use at work on my desk for two weeks, unused, and it started right up when I needed to take some notes on my first morning back). I've yet to get a Jinhao X450 (I've owned 2) or a Baoer 517 (I've owned 3) that I could get to write reliably, even after hours of fiddling with the blasted things.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by writtenworlds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Yeah, I hear ya... but the Preppy carts are very robust and eminently refillable. And they hold a lot of ink.
    I've thought before about refilling cartridges as it doesn't seem like that big a hassle. Perhaps I'll have to think on it some more.
    The Preppy carts have such a big 'bore' you could almost use a conventional eyedropper with care. But I use a plastic pipette. They're all over fleabay at about a dime each if you buy in bulk.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Time for me to mount my hobby horse and point out that when people used to earn a living by writing all day most pens were made of ebonite, celluloid or similarly light materials, and came in at about a third of the typical weight for a modern pen. What really mystifies me is this business of some modern manufacturers actively engineering excess mass into their designs.
    You are spot on. More than half of pens in my not so small (~150) pen collection are ebonite and majority are in rotation as daily writers.

    Most are Indian eyedroppers which need to be rarely refilled during the week due to their huge ink capacity.
    Last edited by Mesu; November 29th, 2013 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I bought several Chinese pens when I returned to FPs a few years ago. Some were awful; I've kept a Picasso all-black -- forget he model name, but a simple and normal-sized pen. Also have a very large Duke that wrote OK. Both are tucked away in my "when I want a pen that takes an international cartridge" box, and have been for three or four years.

    Why? What's the alternative for a fountain pen under $30?

    - Parker 45 on EBay often lands around $10, because they aren't for collectors. They were Parker's all-component, everything unscrews, cartridge/converter, student pens. They last, and parts from a 1998 P45 will fit a 1963 P45. You can swap the nibs. A reliable pen so good that Parker could not stop making them until 2006 or '07, after beginning about 1960.

    - Sheaffer 330, "new old stock", from Peyton Street Pens. I don't know where Teri M found her stash of NOS post-1960 Sheaffers, but the 330 was a smooth pen with the great Sheafer inlaid nib.

    - Lamy Safari, if you can tolerate the grip. (I think Lamy has upside down: if they had shaped the grip like Parker's 75, I'd be using a Safari today)

    - Esterbrook: almost indestructible, beautiful marbling, but those were not the company's selling points. Esterbrook sold "the world's most personal pen": go to a pen-counter, the advertisement said, and find just the right point out of Esterbrook's line of about 40 different sizes, shapes, and tipping material. Then screw it into one of our pens. All Esties accept any Esterbrook point.

    - Many of the older "third-tier" pens. A Wearever or an Arnold, for instance, might not be as good as a Parker 51, but many of them are better than the $5 Chinese pens.

    If you snag a lever-filler on EBay, you might need to replace the sac, but that's easy on most of those pens. The Wearever, for instance, was a "friction fit", meaning that the section and nib will pull out...with some wiggling, maybe some heat, and usually some "section pliers" (needed to get a solid grip and some leverage). Ink sacs cost a couple dollars each. You might ned to scrape some dead sac from the barrel, which requires a thin screw-driver or something like a dentist's pick...maybe a flashlight. Then you paint some shellac on a section's "nipple", stretch the sac over, let dry, brush the sac in talc (used for billiards...not talcum powder). That's it. Push the nib, section, and sac back into place and you have restored an old pen...more or less.

    Benfits of hunting for "handy-man special" older pens on EBay? You finish with a better pen than most new Chinese pens, and you've gotten a look at the insides of the type of fountain pen that most people used, if they used a pen.

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    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I am never able to find such pens at the prices you list. So for $10 and under, I like to stick with my Chinese pens as knockarounds and ink testers.

    I wish more of them came in lightweight plastic, though.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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  13. #51
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Let me define a "long term success" as still using the pen a year later without cursing it. My long-term success rate with Chinese pens is probably around 15%, vintage pens about 50%, where the latter is depressed a bit by the inherent risks of buying used pens based only on some blurry photos--the best deals tend to come with risks attached. While I do like the Wing Sung 3203 and almost like the Haolilai 601F, most Chinese pens have poorly sealing caps, which leads to flow issues and various other ink misbehaviors. Contrast this with the NOS Sheaffer No-Nonsense pens I got from Todd at isellpens.com (he might still have some pink ones), which I can leave inked for months without any significant dryout. Although the No-Nonsense nibs aren't tipped with a harder metal than the nib, and they sometimes need adjustment, they often turn out to be very smooth, reliable writers. So, while I have to give credit where credit is due with that 15%, my odds with vintage pens appear to be much better.
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    Mike

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I only have one chinese pen, the Hero 704, and it's been a great pen so far. Smooth writer, worked great out of box, no adjustment needed. I guess it might just be pure luck though.

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    Senior Member AndyT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    It might be luck, but it strikes me the chances of getting a good one are a lot better now than they were even just a couple of years ago. Unacceptably scratchy nibs, flow problems and even those brittle inner caps seem to be rare now - maybe it's a case of experience gained making all those entry level Parkers and Shaeffers. I broadly agree with mhosea and welch about vintage representing the best value for money, but as far as modern rigid-nibbed pens go it's mostly cosmetic design which holds the Chinese manufacturers back now.

  17. #54
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    I am never able to find such pens at the prices you list. So for $10 and under, I like to stick with my Chinese pens as knockarounds and ink testers.

    I wish more of them came in lightweight plastic, though.
    Sorry, Sailor.

    - I haven't bought a Parker 45 in three or four years. Just checked EBay and the typical price seems to have climbed to about $25. I last bought a P45 almost by accident: I bid $5 -- opening price -- on a 45 and discovered that I had won it. No one bid. There is somewhat moe interest now, but he P45 is still under-valued and under-appreciated.

    - In my head, a "restored" Esterbrook should sell for about $25 - $30. That was the price at which "Applejim" sold them...he died a few months ago. I haven't looked, but I thnk OldRetiredPerson still sells at about that price. I happen to like "unrestored" Esties, meaning Esties that need a sac and point.

    - If Wearevers are selling for more than $10, I'll start selling my repair practice-pens on EBay.

    - Check Richard Binder's list of third-tier and "big-box" pens, meaning pens made to be sold as a Macys or Sears and Roebuck pen. Also look for National, Arnold, Travellers, American. Work through Richard's "Glossopedia" for some names. I love the mid-30s lever-filling marbled pens. It's as if the pen companies figured out how to use a marbled material and went wild. After WW2, companies tended to make section and barrel in a sold color. Some of the plastics were experiments hat failed...I once tried to pull the section on a 1950 (or so) pen and found that, under a little heat, the section could stretch and bend almost like rubber...but would not let go of the barrel.

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I like cheap Chinese pens because they're good ways to practice nib work, and they have much more interesting aesthetics at a lower price than the big name brands (Delta Dolce Vita vs. Dolce Vita Naranja, Jinhao Dragon pens, lots of other examples), but they are definitely FP 201. I'm a tinkerer at heart so needing work is honestly part of the draw for me, but I know that's not the case for everyone. For reliable and cheap FPs, buyers kind of need to go to the entry-level pens of a big brand, or to only get Chinese pens from a good supplier that is known to sell good quality products (and even then it can be risky unless they check all the pens).

  19. #56
    Senior Member Zhivago's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by dr.grace View Post
    My Hero 100 also started out as a nice writer, but eventually developed an air leak in the inner cap and had the same problem with drying out quickly. Once I tried a real Parker '51', I never looked back.
    As I have one on the way, this and the other negative reports on the 100 were annoying to read. I've had real good luck with two Hero 1000s I got earlier this year; no hard starting or any other issues. Only time will tell if this will last. I've also had, for the most part, good luck with the 616 Doctor/Jumbo pens. Despite these positive experiences, I do agree that ultimately there is no substitute or equal to the P51.

  20. #57
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I love all my inexpensive Chinese pens and use a few every day. Yes, I have worked a bit on the nibs for each one, but since then they have written like butter and have never failed or leaked. And all under $10. Hard to beat that for performance/dollar ratio.

  21. #58
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    My wife bought me a Jinhao X-450, which is a decent working pen, smoothnib. Weighs a ton. Cap can actually post, if posted hard enough. For the rest, Inexpensive Chinese Pens make me feel good about my Parker 51 aeros.In my biased opinion the only good pen Parker made. Those Sheaffer Imperials are also the real deal. I have a few Touchdown (plunger filler) Imperials that are return-to pens after the Sonnets, 45s, Chinese cheapies and Pompous German Junkers have disappointed.

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Thank you, jar. I also bristle at sweeping generalizations. We recently picked up some mid-range Duke models and have been very pleased with the quality. When it comes to a pen below $25, I'll take these Dukes over a Noodlers or a Lamy Safari.

    Let the outrage commence ....

    TERI

  23. #60
    Senior Member Scrawler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I wonder if it makes a difference where you buy them from. I have nothing but good to say about the Chinese pens I have bought that came from Isellpens, HisNibs and Engeika. On the other hand the pens I have bought on ebay, shipped direct from China are a different matter. Those seem to need nib adjustment, sometimes smoothing, and in the case of a package of 10 Hero 616, 3 needed to be thrown away. As Teri points out about Duke, I have not used a bad one, and I would take one over a Noodlers pen. Proof of this is that I still have my Dukes, and have given away all the Noodlers pens I have had. As to the comments above about Lamy Safari, my daughter is left handed and swears by the Safari as a note taking pen for school, to the extent that I have had to get her the new specials in each of the past 3 years.
    Last edited by Scrawler; January 1st, 2014 at 09:47 PM. Reason: spelling

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