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Thread: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by WilsonCQB1911 View Post
    Sorry to hear about your troubles. No matter how much people seem to love their Chinese pens I just can't get interested. China isn't known for quality.
    Quality? I guess your cell phone is made in Japan? Or, GASP, the US???

  2. #102
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawler View Post
    Yes, quite right. The 159 may be said to be inspired by the MB, but not a "clone".
    Inspired would be a much better way of saying it if needing to be very specific.

    Doesn't help (newcomers, which I was at the time) when one reviewer describe it as :
    In this video, I review the Jinhao 159: a Chinese replica that resembles the Montblanc 149 Meisterstück to an uncanny degree. The differences? Well, the 159 takes a converter instead of being a piston-filler and is not made of resin, but of aluminum. Oh, and then there's the minor price difference: a new 149 will cost you hundreds of dollars and the 159 cost me $0.99.
    :P

    But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.

    That being said, in terms of the Jinhao stuff, if the 159 were just a hair smaller (say maybe just a bit larger than a Platinum Century 3776), but still about the same weight if not just a tiny bit lighter (ie: down to what the X450/X750 feels like), I feel like it'd be a nice carry pen that wouldn't have much fear of breaking or losing. It's size just doesn't really work in some of my cases next to most my other pens, but least it's not a yard-o-lead.

    Quote Originally Posted by sempra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WilsonCQB1911 View Post
    Sorry to hear about your troubles. No matter how much people seem to love their Chinese pens I just can't get interested. China isn't known for quality.
    Quality? I guess your cell phone is made in Japan? Or, GASP, the US???
    :P iPod, iPhone, Macbook, etc ... Made in China (... which I Guess doesn't help if someone were to say Apple is Crap lol). I believe most of the textile that the US uses for clothing is also made in China, as well as a number of electronic components made in name brand products. The cost of labor is just simply cheaper, but quality control is usually another tier to the process, manufactures can work with certain firms to a degree while keeping the cost down on the labor front.

    Before the 80s-90s "Made in Japan" was received with the same feeling as "Made in China", back then Made in Japan meant cheap and low quality.

    And in regards to paper products, I avoid "Made in U.S.A." when I can, it's just not usually good paper on the inexpensive side, too inconsistent, even though they can make good paper from recycled materials, probably just not cheaply. (ie: I'd buy more mass produced Made in USA products if the quality was up to par).

    Also in regards to comparison price wise, my chinese pens (Jinhao mainly) that cost 5-9$ have been holding out longer than some pentel, papermate, parker, BIC, etc pens of the exact same price. The Jinhaos haven't snapped in half or became loose in parts from being bumped etc like some of the local products in that price range, but course I'd have to imagine that a $7 Pentel pen is probably closer to a $1-2 chinese pen, because the profit has to come from somewhere. But domestic sellers (other than HisNib who marks up substantially and hides the model #) are not tacking on more much than a dollar or two when selling the X450/X750/159, so still works out better than non-chinese products in the same price range.

    Course once it gets closer to 12-13 for the price of the pen, without having to swap nibs, I start looking at Pilot/etc products like the Metropolitan at $15 (MSRP being something like 18.75, but Goulet sells them at 15) since compared to my X750 it's a bit smoother with the stock nib, and a bit more reliable in ink flow and consistency.

    Yes China has Cheap Labor, but you're (wilson) probably using more Chinese products of accepted quality than you realize.

    When I was on a chinese pen buying binge I was expecting a good % of them to be flat out duds for the price, like maybe 25-30% of them, but surprisingly only one purchase was like that, and least that was adjustable to be usable (the Baoer 507 I spoke of earlier). And while it's not up to my standard (too wet/broad after being adjusted, plus dries out easy if not used daily), the people who have received them love them, including one college student who happens to write daily. So I guess by adding their standards, I've had a 100% success rate with chinese pens so far, I don't expect pristine workmanship at $10, but I do expect them to work which they do and with minimal fuss, none of them have had any 'accidents', but a few of them have been hard starters to be expected if not used often.
    Last edited by KBeezie; May 28th, 2014 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    To completely jump the tracks, USA-made paper used to be excellent. I still have a few vintage pads, notebooks and bound journals, which take fp ink beautifully. I'm always looking for vintage paper at yard sales and thrift stores, as long as it doesn't smell moldy.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.
    It's not really my intention to get excited about it. I just think the comparison between the MB149 and J159 is exaggerated. Stephen overdoes it in that video and especially in the caption. Notice how he admits to holding the J159 differently than he holds other pens. Let that sink in...

    The thing with buying a MB if you want a MB is knowing that you want a MB in this age of online ordering. Even if you have a local pen shop, experience often dictates that first impressions are o'er hasty, and buying a new MB149 seems like an excuse to get rid of good money. Most of us are going to get them used, and they are still expensive that way. Furthermore, it takes time to know whether you're really going to like something, and MB 149's are pretty expensive pens to be experimenting with. I know I myself bought a J159 to explore the question of whether the MB149 would be too big or what not. However, what I found out eventually, after a couple of years of unnecessarily avoiding the MB149, was that it is really quite easy to hate the J159 and love the MB149 because they are very different in the hand, regardless of how "uncanny" the visual resemblance might be.
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  7. #105
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    But I don't feel like it's something worth to get up in arms over, since I feel like if you really want a montblanc, you should get a montblanc. That's just me though.
    It's not really my intention to get excited about it. I just think the comparison between the MB149 and J159 is exaggerated. Stephen overdoes it in that video and especially in the caption. Notice how he admits to holding the J159 differently than he holds other pens. Let that sink in...

    The thing with buying a MB if you want a MB is knowing that you want a MB in this age of online ordering. Even if you have a local pen shop, experience often dictates that first impressions are o'er hasty, and buying a new MB149 seems like an excuse to get rid of good money. Most of us are going to get them used, and they are still expensive that way. Furthermore, it takes time to know whether you're really going to like something, and MB 149's are pretty expensive pens to be experimenting with. I know I myself bought a J159 to explore the question of whether the MB149 would be too big or what not. However, what I found out eventually, after a couple of years of unnecessarily avoiding the MB149, was that it is really quite easy to hate the J159 and love the MB149 because they are very different in the hand, regardless of how "uncanny" the visual resemblance might be.
    In regards to a 149, I feel they're overpriced for what they are, mostly marked up for status. Cheap Jinhao pens, they're priced about right in my opinion. I feel that they could raise the price a little bit and still have buyers for certain models. $20ish is about the limit I'd pay for a single Chinese-branded/owned pen unless there was something unique about it (which usually price and tinkering are the main unique things about them).

    Edit: Who the heck keeps leaving me reputation comments to use the edit button? I'm REPLYING to a post.

    snipfpgeek.jpg
    Last edited by KBeezie; May 28th, 2014 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #106
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I have one Chinese pen, a Ta Tung 707, that came in a lot with something I wanted ( I wouldn't have bought it on it's own....being a pen snob...). Probably from the '70's but ?? and what a surprise it is !! Sure it's a light weight plastic pen but that's where the "cheap" feel ends, it's a piston filler, has an ink view window, has a spring (!!!) loaded clip that really does hold the pen in place ( I confess a good clip is something I really like especially spring loaded), good clean cap threads and a decent sized (gold coloured) steel nib



    It's a fairly standard size ( think Sheaffer TM) and sits nicely in the hand, the caps post firmly and the nib is smooth medium with a bit of spring and lays down a line on the drier side. A very easy pen to use and much better than it's origin might suggest, and from the price/value/quality aspect there's nothing to fault.

    Regards
    Hugh

    Edit to add: I reviewed it here on the FPB some time ago
    Last edited by HughC; May 28th, 2014 at 06:33 PM.

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  10. #107
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Ooooo. Like!
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

  11. #108
    Senior Member I like mango pudding's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Let's just say I have ink in all three of my 149's and no ink in my 159

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  13. #109
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by I like mango pudding View Post
    Let's just say I have ink in all three of my 149's and no ink in my 159
    If I owned a 149, I'd do the same thing. :P

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrawler View Post
    When I lived in China (1989-1996) I observed that large, fancy looking modern pens were made to be given as gifts, because the pen is associated with education, and presenting one was a symbol of esteem. There was very much a gift giving culture. For the most part these pens were intended to symbolically sign a document, then be out away and forgotten. So it did not really matter that the feed was hard plastic. For everyday use the pens the officials used were quite plain, but worked well. Many of the modern pens we see today come from this gift giving and presentation culture. It was the appearance that mattered. When it came time to present me with my pen I made it known that I did not want a fancy presentation pen, but I preferred something that I was going to use. This caused a bit of a problem, but my hosts cleverly solved it by finding an unused 1954 (the year of my birth) officials working pen. It was NOS and sealed in a nice box. So for my part, I made a great show of opening and filling it, signing the documents, and then placing it in my breast pocket to show that it was going to be used. This pen is an imitation of a Duofold of the time, with a push button filler and a gold nib. I was (and still am) very pleased with it. Despite its plain appearance I increased my host's face by speaking of how special it was to me, and showed off the excellent nib, and spoke of its quality.
    Thank you for sharing this. What a lovely story!
    I never knew that China made button filler. Who was the manufacturer?
    Although there are very few modern Chinese FPs that I will keep, some vintage or semi-vintage ones are a lot more pleasant to use. YMMV.
    Kai

    "Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished." -- Lao Tzu


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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by WilsonCQB1911 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    I've had a few Chinese pens and for the most part, they were adequate. One I would even place in the nice category. But when I here "China isn't known for quality." I'll admit my hackles do rise. I certainly can remember when the same was said about Germany, England (especially the Prince of Darkness), Japan and definitely the US.
    .
    That's just ignoring reality though. Chinese manufacturing's business model is to produce items as cheaply as possible and fill the void for lowest cost products. Doing this naturally requires skimping on quality and sometimes safety. They make foods, even baby foods, with unsafe chemicals in them, etc. and that's for developed countries like the US. In developing countries they offload radioactive material by forming it into bottles and packaging for goods they sell. Low quality is one thing, but this is isn't the same model that Japan followed. Japan and Germany pulled themselves out of it and are renowned for quality. I don't think that's China's end game nor do I think the controls are there to allow for it. I don't remember the US ever been known for cheap goods. It's hard to make anything cheap there.

    I'm not saying that one can't be satisfied with their goods. They fill a niche, but with China's track record, I'd rather spend money elsewhere.
    In total agreement. Their knock-offs of many other manufacturers designs are beyond belief, whether it be fountain pens, pocket knives...whatever. And considering the number of domestic pets that have been killed by their pet food and treats, we do our best to avoid ANYTHING made in China.

  16. #112
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by stevekolt View Post
    . And considering the number of domestic pets that have been killed by their pet food and treats, we do our best to avoid ANYTHING made in China.
    yes, my wife's dog died because of that. They purposefully ignored informing the public about their problems with their dog food being manufactured in China. I blame the manufacturer and the loosey goosey quality controls they have there. I can't think of the unspeakable horrors of those who lost their children due to melamine in the baby formula.

    I do not buy any foodstuffs that are Product of China.

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    This thread brings up some difficult questions.
    Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.

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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by johnus View Post
    This thread brings up some difficult questions.
    Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.
    Sorry, but what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

  21. #115
    Senior Member Scrawler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    Quote Originally Posted by johnus View Post
    This thread brings up some difficult questions.
    Greed has cause unbelievable harm to 'all' of us. Not only today, but in the past.
    Although this is way off topic, I agree. You only have to look at modern North America to see the truth of this. Not just there, but in many western countries, schools these days, only teach children enough to want and consume. Our greed will leave the earth an empty husk, then nature will have to go through the process of evolving something that can survive on our leavings.

  22. #116
    Senior Member jacksterp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    WOW - this thread took an unexpected turn.

    FWIW - I now have one Chinese made pen. I think I will leave it at that.

  23. #117
    Junior Member ajhandscomb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I live in China now and its all about luck, timing and being persistent. For example, i just found today a wonderful fountain pen that is 85 RMB. Thats about $14.00 USA. And from what i could see it is very nicely constructed.
    But I have also had the luck of the Irish when I was once shopping in Lufthansa Shopping Center in Chaoyang, Beijing across from the Westin Hotel and part of the Lufthansa Hotel Chaoyang to find a pen that is exceptional for 6 RMB.....thats about a buck ladies and gents. Some of the threads in here suggest that China's quality is not up to scratch when in comes to pens. Well, maybe. But I assure you keep the boxes and pens of any you have purchased because in time (some of them) they will become quite valuable. As for me, I love all pens, inexpensive, expensive, from any country.....but most of all I just love pens.

    Quote Originally Posted by writtenworlds View Post
    Hello FP Geeks, and goodbye Chinese fountain pens.

    I have about 15 Chinese fountain pens. All of them but one have needed some sort of adjustment... anything from widening the nib a little, to aligning the tines and smoothing the nib too. The only Chinese fountain pen I have that wrote wonderfully right out of the box is my Jinhao 159. So, I'm quite used to adjusting nibs.

    Now let me tell you a little story. A while ago, I got a Jinhao x450. Normally if you need to widen a nib, it only takes about 10 to 15 minutes to do, if you're being careful. This Jinhao x450 just wouldn't write, unless I gave it a fair amount of pressure, so it was obvious the nib needed widening. I gathered my tools and got to work. It took two hours, yes, two hours, to get the nib widened. Then the tines needed to be aligned and the nib needed to be smoothed. After all that, it wrote wonderfully. For a while. I used up all the ink in the pen and refilled it, and now it's decided it wants to leak whenever I hold the pen point-down.

    Later, I got a Kaigelu 356. I had heard nothing but good things about them. When my pen arrived, the nib slit and tines were closed so tight, it was like they were welded together. Just slightly down from the hole, not a speck of light would pass between. I worked on that pen and worked on that pen. I really wanted it to work because it was so comfortable to hold. Two hours later and I could get the barest, thinnest line from it. And then the tipping of one of the nib tines decided to break off.

    So then it was on to a Baoer 388. Baoers are generally well-received and this was basically the same model as the Kaigelu 356. When it arrived there was a nice amount of space in the nib slit, until it got to the tines, which were stuck fast together. Three hours, three hours of work and the pen still wouldn't write without applying quite a bit of pressure. The nib just would not adjust. And I noticed that it too was leaking whenever held point-down, both with bottled ink in a converter, and a completely different brand of ink in a cartridge.

    At that point, I carefully and deliberately bent the nib into a very interesting shape. Three different Chinese fountain pens from three different manufacturers all in a row. I'm done with Chinese fountain pens. I'm so frustrated, I can't even look at my fountain pens right now. I'm just reaching for my trusty roller ball. It has a magic button on the back where when you press it, it just works. Every time.

  24. #118
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    Default Re: Goodbye Chinese Fountain Pens

    I must say I have all Chinese pens except for a waterman phileas which is my Cadillac of my pens . I have never had a problem with them not writing well but you must remember that all of these pens have to be cleaned very well btwn ink changes and fresh out of the box.

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