Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

  1. #1
    Member Moxoftritonytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    What you need for doing this:

    One Dremel (or other similar) power tool with adjustable speed

    A hard felt polishing cone attachment for the power tool

    A tiny bit of the fine Dremel polishing compound or other very fine polishing compound suitable for polishing silver/chrome

    An ultrasonic cleaner (30 to 50 watts are ideal)

    Some good smooth paper like Clairefontaine, Onionskin or Tomoe River, smooth copy paper is also okay

    A loupe (should magnify at least 12x)

    A lamp for your workplace so you actually see what you`re doing

    A bottle of ink

    A piece of cloth

    The fountain pen(s) you want to treat this way


    How it works:

    First of all you prepare the felt polishing cone by putting a bit of polishing compound or creme onto it. Rub it into the cone surface and then wipe off all excess compound with a piece of cloth. You only want a tiny bit of compound/creme on the cone for you want to only highgloss polish the tip of your nib and not grind it to death.

    Then you unink the pen. If you don`t then ink will spray all over your workplace when you polish.

    Then you insert the felt cone attachment into the power tool and fix it. Now you can uncap the pen.
    Adjust the turning speed of your power tool at 8000rpm and switch it on. Now you`re ready to rumble.

    Hold the power tool in the right hand with the rotating tip pointing away from your body. It should rotate clockwise. If the tip rotates counter-clockwise hold it in the left hand with the rotating tip pointing away from your body.

    Now take the pen with the other hand and hold it just like you want to write with it in a relaxed grip. No cramped "death grip" please.

    Now you lightly touch the surface of the rotating hard felt cone with the iridium tip of the pen. Please take care that the angle between the pen and the powertool is 90 degrees and that the cone rotates in the direction away from the pen which should be if you have done everything right until now.
    If the cone rotates towards the pen it will catch and splice your nib! So never do that.

    Hold the nib`s iridium tip on the cone surface for a few (3to5) seconds and release again. Relax. The pressure you apply should be a bit less then what you apply when writing on a paper sheet. Because you want to polish the tip and not grind it.

    Do this a couple of times to get a feeling for this kind of work.

    Then continue by writing little O`s on the surface of the rotating cone for about 10 seconds. Then release again and put the nib tip back on the cone for 10 seconds, this time holding it straight first then slightly tilting it to the one side of the nib, then to the other so the sides of the iridium tip get polished, too.

    Now switch off the powertool and put it aside. Take your good smooth paper and wipe off the nib with a piece of cloth. Then dip it into the ink and write something. Feel how smooth the nib is now.If you like its`smoothness clean it in the ultrasonic cleaner(3minutes at 50 watts) to get rid of the oils of the polishing compound.
    If it still isn`t smooth enough repeat the polishing process until you are satisfied. In this case you should take your loupe and check the iridium tip between the polishing rounds to make sure that you don`t damage it or grind it down. After smoothing it out put it in the ultrasonic cleaner and clean as described above.

    Then ink your pen and you`re done. It should write smoother now.

    I have been able to make some EF and EEF nibs buttery smooth this way. One was smooth after one round, the other needed two.

    You can also use this method to smooth out dip pen nibs, by the way.


    This method takes some practice, so you should start with cheaper pens to gain some experience before you use it on your gold nibs. Nibs that come buttery smooth out of the factory can`t be improved this way, so don`t try it.

    Now good luck and happy polishing.

    Regards,
    Moxoftritonytes

    PS: you should keep in mind that ultrasonic cleaning can remove the plating of goldplated nibs, so there you better use a cloth and rubbing alcohol or ammonia to clean your nibs.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moxoftritonytes For This Useful Post:

    KrazyIvan (December 2nd, 2013), Uncle Bud (March 18th, 2014)

  3. #2
    Senior Member I like mango pudding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    377
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 143 Times in 98 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    8000 rpm is way too fast. You want it at around 2000rpm, even less would be better.

  4. #3
    Member Moxoftritonytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    If you have one of those big polishing machines with two wheels then 8000rpm is way too fast, agreed. But most Dremel power tools start at 5000rpm minimum speed and go up to 35000rpm. So 8000rpm isn`t very fast on that machine for a small (6x10mm) felt cone. In the beginning I have experimented and tried out 5000rpm on my Dremel as well as 8000rpm, 12000rpm and 18000rpm. The manual even suggested I should take 22000rpm for polishing metal which I didn`t do.
    I got the best results at 8000rpm. And it was just the right speed to get the job done without having to polish around on the nib tip for hours.

  5. #4
    FPG Donor ♕ KrazyIvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas-USA
    Posts
    5,068
    Thanks
    1,476
    Thanked 1,798 Times in 943 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    I will have to try this. I have all the tools already. I did not know that an ultrasonic cleaner could remove plating. We used them all the time for cleaning eye glasses with plated frames.
    Fountain Pen Sith Lord | Daakusaido | Everything in one spot

  6. #5
    Member Moxoftritonytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    I have properly removed the gold plating off the frame of my eyeglasses with an ultrasonic cleaner.

  7. #6
    Junior Member TimGirdler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    "Stonewall"'s Virginia
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 16 Times in 6 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxoftritonytes View Post
    What you need for doing this:

    One Dremel (or other similar) power tool with adjustable speed

    A hard felt polishing cone attachment for the power tool

    A tiny bit of the fine Dremel polishing compound or other very fine polishing compound suitable for polishing silver/chrome

    An ultrasonic cleaner (30 to 50 watts are ideal)

    Some good smooth paper like Clairefontaine, Onionskin or Tomoe River, smooth copy paper is also okay

    A loupe (should magnify at least 12x)

    A lamp for your workplace so you actually see what you`re doing

    A bottle of ink

    A piece of cloth

    The fountain pen(s) you want to treat this way


    How it works:

    First of all you prepare the felt polishing cone by putting a bit of polishing compound or creme onto it. Rub it into the cone surface and then wipe off all excess compound with a piece of cloth. You only want a tiny bit of compound/creme on the cone for you want to only highgloss polish the tip of your nib and not grind it to death.

    Then you unink the pen. If you don`t then ink will spray all over your workplace when you polish.

    Then you insert the felt cone attachment into the power tool and fix it. Now you can uncap the pen.
    Adjust the turning speed of your power tool at 8000rpm and switch it on. Now you`re ready to rumble.

    Hold the power tool in the right hand with the rotating tip pointing away from your body. It should rotate clockwise. If the tip rotates counter-clockwise hold it in the left hand with the rotating tip pointing away from your body.

    Now take the pen with the other hand and hold it just like you want to write with it in a relaxed grip. No cramped "death grip" please.

    Now you lightly touch the surface of the rotating hard felt cone with the iridium tip of the pen. Please take care that the angle between the pen and the powertool is 90 degrees and that the cone rotates in the direction away from the pen which should be if you have done everything right until now.
    If the cone rotates towards the pen it will catch and splice your nib! So never do that.

    Hold the nib`s iridium tip on the cone surface for a few (3to5) seconds and release again. Relax. The pressure you apply should be a bit less then what you apply when writing on a paper sheet. Because you want to polish the tip and not grind it.

    Do this a couple of times to get a feeling for this kind of work.

    Then continue by writing little O`s on the surface of the rotating cone for about 10 seconds. Then release again and put the nib tip back on the cone for 10 seconds, this time holding it straight first then slightly tilting it to the one side of the nib, then to the other so the sides of the iridium tip get polished, too.

    Now switch off the powertool and put it aside. Take your good smooth paper and wipe off the nib with a piece of cloth. Then dip it into the ink and write something. Feel how smooth the nib is now.If you like its`smoothness clean it in the ultrasonic cleaner(3minutes at 50 watts) to get rid of the oils of the polishing compound.
    If it still isn`t smooth enough repeat the polishing process until you are satisfied. In this case you should take your loupe and check the iridium tip between the polishing rounds to make sure that you don`t damage it or grind it down. After smoothing it out put it in the ultrasonic cleaner and clean as described above.

    Then ink your pen and you`re done. It should write smoother now.

    I have been able to make some EF and EEF nibs buttery smooth this way. One was smooth after one round, the other needed two.

    You can also use this method to smooth out dip pen nibs, by the way.


    This method takes some practice, so you should start with cheaper pens to gain some experience before you use it on your gold nibs. Nibs that come buttery smooth out of the factory can`t be improved this way, so don`t try it.

    Now good luck and happy polishing.

    Regards,
    Moxoftritonytes

    PS: you should keep in mind that ultrasonic cleaning can remove the plating of goldplated nibs, so there you better use a cloth and rubbing alcohol or ammonia to clean your nibs.
    I've seen some other ideas about nib smoothing, but I can't think of a more dangerous process than the one described here.

    There is a reason that most nib workers use hand power with micro abrasives for nib work. Any power tool is going to be too much, unless you're grinding a Stub or an Italic. If you're attempting to tune a nib with a power tool, it's likely that a foot will be worn into the nib in a matter of seconds.

    Nib workers do things using properly calibrated abrasives--2,000 grit sandpaper, 12,000 grit micromesh, etc. We use hand power so that every adjustment is small, and we creep towards the goal. As the line is used in The Patriot, "Aim small; Miss small."

    Also, we fill pens, not just dip them. A dipped pen can't be properly tested for proper ink flow.

    So, my strongest recommendation is that you not try the above procedure, unless you want to send your pen to me to see if I can fix it or if I can install a new nib.

    Blessings,

    Tim
    Tim Girdler Pens (Nib Tuning; Custom Nib Grinding; New & Vintage Pen Sales)
    The Fountain Pen: An elegant instrument for a more civilized age.
    I Write With: Any one of my assortment of Parker "51"s or Vacumatics

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TimGirdler For This Useful Post:

    AndyT (December 17th, 2013), Jon Szanto (December 16th, 2013), Koyote (December 29th, 2013), Laura N (December 17th, 2013), spotted and speckled (December 17th, 2013), trhall (December 17th, 2013)

  9. #7
    Member Moxoftritonytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by TimGirdler View Post
    There is a reason that most nib workers use hand power with micro abrasives for nib work. Any power tool is going to be too much, unless you're grinding a Stub or an Italic. If you're attempting to tune a nib with a power tool, it's likely that a foot will be worn into the nib in a matter of seconds.
    I have clearly stated that for this method one has to use a felt polishing cone. Made from felt, the material Stetson uses for making hats. It is quite soft and will not eat away the iridium tipping within seconds like a grindstone does. For it is a polishing cone and no grinding stone. In fact the felt cone will have cut grooves in it by the iridium and wear quickly, not the other way round.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimGirdler View Post
    Also, we fill pens, not just dip them. A dipped pen can't be properly tested for proper ink flow.
    I dip pens when polishing the writing tips with a Dremel to test how smooth their iridium tips have become. If I had filled them before there would be ink spraying all over the workbench during the polishing process. I have tried it and had to clean up everything afterwards. To prevent this mess I only dip them and wipe off the ink before touching the Dremel. The ink flow will be tested and adjusted after the nib sections have been worked on and come out of the ultrasonic bath.

    And I have seen enough nib workers using power tools for the final polishing of the nib before it gets mounted on the pen. It is an industrial standard that they use fast rotating, motor-driven felt polishing wheels for that final step. I have seen that at Bock as well as Pelikan with my own eyes.

    Regards,
    Mox

  10. #8
    Junior Member TimGirdler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    "Stonewall"'s Virginia
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 16 Times in 6 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxoftritonytes View Post
    I have clearly stated that for this method one has to use a felt polishing cone. Made from felt, the material Stetson uses for making hats. It is quite soft and will not eat away the iridium tipping within seconds like a grindstone does. For it is a polishing cone and no grinding stone. In fact the felt cone will have cut grooves in it by the iridium and wear quickly, not the other way round.
    The problem is, though, is that the felt is not made as an abrasive itself and is therefore, for lack of a better term, unregulated. When we use felt to polish nibs (which is different from tuning them) we put jeweler's rouge on them so that they will have the ability to properly polish the surface.

    What is more, the felt can and likely will clog the nib as the nib "cuts" in to the felt. There is a reason that professional nib workers don't do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxoftritonytes View Post
    I dip pens when polishing the writing tips with a Dremel to test how smooth their iridium tips have become. If I had filled them before there would be ink spraying all over the workbench during the polishing process. I have tried it and had to clean up everything afterwards. To prevent this mess I only dip them and wipe off the ink before touching the Dremel. The ink flow will be tested and adjusted after the nib sections have been worked on and come out of the ultrasonic bath.
    The issue is your starting point of using the Dremel to tune nibs. If you're tuning by hand--which is the industry standard--the ink acts to move the "junk" away from the nib as you're tuning it.

    If you are polishing a nib with a Dremel and inking it after, you will likely have no way to test if there is a flow issue caused by, say, Baby's Bottom. If you dip a pen, the feed is flooded. When the feed is flooded, you can't get an accurate view of flow or performance as the over-abundance of ink masks these issues.

    And, tuning a nib is more than polishing the tip. There is alignment to consider, proper slit geometry, the shape of the tipping material, etc. Polishing is, frankly, the least of these issues. Besides, it is possible to make a nib too smooth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxoftritonytes View Post
    And I have seen enough nib workers using power tools for the final polishing of the nib before it gets mounted on the pen. It is an industrial standard that they use fast rotating, motor-driven felt polishing wheels for that final step. I have seen that at Bock as well as Pelikan with my own eyes.
    There are none that I know of who tune using a Dremel--and I know all but two personally. I've never met John Mottishaw nor his pupil, Greg Minuskin. But, Mottishaw's articles reveal that he tunes by hand, and I'd assume Minuskin does the same.

    I think you have made an error in observation here. Nib workers grind nibs using a Dremel--grinding nibs to be more narrow, grinding any of the Italic grinds, etc. We do not use the Dremel for tuning--that's a different thing altogether.

    Even after grinding a stub or an italic, or even a narrower nib, the grinds are finished and tuned by hand.

    Blessings,

    Tim
    Last edited by TimGirdler; December 31st, 2013 at 01:11 AM.
    Tim Girdler Pens (Nib Tuning; Custom Nib Grinding; New & Vintage Pen Sales)
    The Fountain Pen: An elegant instrument for a more civilized age.
    I Write With: Any one of my assortment of Parker "51"s or Vacumatics

  11. #9
    Member Moxoftritonytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    39
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 17 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    The Thread title says it all I think. I have described one of the methods I use to smooth a nib out a little, not how I tune it in regards to the inkflow. That`s another topic.
    And I have never been able to make a nib too smooth using this method. I still wonder how one can make a nib as overly smooth as some Montblanc nibs that are so smooth that they won`t write on some better papers. I had one of these pens. After roughing up the writing tip a bit it worked just fine. Babybottom was no issue here.

  12. #10
    Junior Member TimGirdler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    "Stonewall"'s Virginia
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 16 Times in 6 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxoftritonytes View Post
    The Thread title says it all I think. I have described one of the methods I use to smooth a nib out a little, not how I tune it in regards to the inkflow. That`s another topic.
    And I have never been able to make a nib too smooth using this method. I still wonder how one can make a nib as overly smooth as some Montblanc nibs that are so smooth that they won`t write on some better papers. I had one of these pens. After roughing up the writing tip a bit it worked just fine. Babybottom was no issue here.
    A proper ink flow is part and parcel to proper smoothing and tuning, and they are not inseparable. The ink acts as a lubricant and the flow of ink will affect the feel of the pen.

    And, in this case, the title doesn't say it at all. What you're doing is polishing the tipping material. Will that make certain aspects of the nib feel smoother? Perhaps. But it does nothing to address the inner corners of the tines and the outer corners of the tines which is where a large majority of the "scratchiness" comes from. All you're doing is making the tipping shiny-er, not tuning it or smoothing it. Your methods are, perhaps, akin to polishing a clunker of a car rather than dealing with the faulty internal mechanics. It may look nice, it may even run well for a while, but the underlying problems are still there.

    Of course, you may do what you wish to your own pens. That's not the issue. However, for those who do this on a regular basis and have clients who pay them to do nib tuning and smoothing, the technique you've described here is not recommended. There is a reason, after all, that the established greats like Binder and Mottishaw don't do--and would never do--what you're describing.

    People send me their pens so that I can smooth them. I'm paid for my services. My pen pedigree and my training are pretty reputable in that I did not learn my craft from an amateur and I did not teach myself.

    Blessings,

    Tim
    Tim Girdler Pens (Nib Tuning; Custom Nib Grinding; New & Vintage Pen Sales)
    The Fountain Pen: An elegant instrument for a more civilized age.
    I Write With: Any one of my assortment of Parker "51"s or Vacumatics

  13. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Interesting read. We each have our own methods. It is one thing to work on your own pens, it is another to tweak someone else's nib while everyone else is eating.

    I do like this video about nib grinding. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rFKAssY...%3DrFKAssYpwug

    For the record, I don't have a Dremel tool for nib work.

  14. #12
    Useless mhosea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,580
    Thanks
    440
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 786 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Well, I've used a green rubber polishing wheel on a Dremel. I don't use it much anymore. There are a couple of instances where it works wonders, but I won't bother to go into details there because on the whole it's not a good idea, IMHO, and I don't recommend it. I prefer slow and steady methods. I go through the pink, white, and gray buff sticks pretty quick, the green and white mylar sheets, too, though to a much lesser extent there.
    --
    Mike

  15. #13
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    6,616
    Thanks
    7,795
    Thanked 11,039 Times in 4,010 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Tape 'em to the wall and get the sandblaster out...
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  16. #14
    FPG Donor ♕ KrazyIvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas-USA
    Posts
    5,068
    Thanks
    1,476
    Thanked 1,798 Times in 943 Posts
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Tape 'em to the wall and get the sandblaster out...
    Been there done that. I can't find the pen. Yes I'm being fecitious.
    Fountain Pen Sith Lord | Daakusaido | Everything in one spot

  17. #15
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    6,616
    Thanks
    7,795
    Thanked 11,039 Times in 4,010 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Tape 'em to the wall and get the sandblaster out...
    Been there done that. I can't find the pen. Yes I'm being fecitious.
    I'd rather you were being Felicia, but we can't have everything.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  18. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Chicago area
    Posts
    170
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 93 Times in 61 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: How to smooth out a nib using the latest technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Tape 'em to the wall and get the sandblaster out...
    Been there done that. I can't find the pen. Yes I'm being fecitious.
    I'd rather you were being Felicia, but we can't have everything.
    Is SHE here, too?

    Just kidding. I don't do nib work for others, but I find that the issues/conditions of tine alignment and flow adjustment are critical parameters to the smoothness of my nibs. I can look through a literal chronology of my nib tuning "experiments" and find that the more recent they are, the less physical grinding/polishing/smoothing I have needed to perform. Nib geometry and flow adjustments seem to do most all of what I've needed except for a couple of recalcitrant modern plastic feeds (can you remember early modern Conklins?) that needed some creative hacking to work.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •