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Thread: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

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    Default The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder


    Read the Inktronics review of the Groove by @mrmikedudek at inktronics.wordpress.com by IvanRomero, on Flickr

    This review can also be found on my blog, Inktronics.

    Every once in a while the gears that control the universe mesh in such a fashion that they hum sweetly in the background complimenting your life’s soundtrack. Such an event happened recently. I was able to meet Mike Dudek of clickypost.com with help from Dan Bishop, KarasKustoms pen designer. Well, not just pen designer, but that is material for another post soon!

    It was great to meet other pen people in person. I must say that it does not happen often for me. The experience was refreshing. Something I was not expecting was the gift of Groove. The Groove is the brainchild of Mr. Dudek. I must say, the Groove is such a simple pen holder design it is genius. The design reminds me of the simple lines of a Lamy 2000. There is nothing flashy about it. It does not need flash. It simply says, “I am here.” A block of walnut to hold 9 pens and a groove to hold small notebooks. Mr Dudek made my particular Groove with three larger holes in the center row. The holes are either 1/2″ or 5/8″. This fits my larger Diameter pens just fine. I have not had a chance to try a Jinhao 159 in there but I don’t think it will work. I did not think to try it before writing this but I will report my findings latter. It is not a big loss in my eyes. The groove on the side holds my leather notebook cover just fine or a thicker notebook if you like. A group of three smaller notebooks (ie Field Notes) fit nicely also just not at the same time as my leather bound notebook. Some may cringe at possible scratches on their pens from placing them in the holder. So far, I have not seen anything on my pens but it is entirely possible.

    The nutty smell of the wood is a plus in my eyes. I did not know this beforehand but Mike also sends some felt pads to stick on the underside of the Groove so it will not mar the finish of whatever it is placed on. He also includes some form of Doane paper notebook with your purchase. A definite plus! The discreet placement of the Dudek logo branded on the bottom of the Groove is a nice touch. I think I would not mind the logo in a more visible spot.

    Mike is open to input on the design if you want to customize your Groove as I have seen a Groove with an added phone dock. You will have to ask him about that.

    Overall, this would make a great gift for that pen geek that has every pen and ink you can think of already. Even if they don’t have every pen and ink it makes a great gift. I know I am enjoying mine. Get one for yourself while you are at it.

    I want to thank Mr. Dudek for providing this review sample.

    What others have to say about the Groove:

    Ana at The Well Appointed Desk recently reviewed the Groove.

    FPQuest - Dudek Modern Goods (Mike Dudek) “The Groove”

    EdJelley Reviews the Cube (Similar to the Groove but without the umm, groove.
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    Senior Member Bogon07's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Another great review & better pictures over on your Inkytronics blog.
    I like the look of the Groove ( I want to say BLOCK) it oooozes style and solidity with some appealing wood grain.

    Possibly Mr Dudek could offer optional soft plastic or felt tubes that sit just below the top edge of the holes for those worried about scratching their pens.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogon07 View Post
    Another great review & better pictures over on your Inkytronics blog.
    I like the look of the Groove ( I want to say BLOCK) it oooozes style and solidity with some appealing wood grain.

    Possibly Mr Dudek could offer optional soft plastic or felt tubes that sit just below the top edge of the holes for those worried about scratching their pens.
    I was thinking about that but I don't know how much that would increase the price and how much added work it would be. When we met, he had just had a new born baby girl in the days prior.
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    Senior Member AndyT's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Hmm, this rather bothers me in the "why should I bother making fine furniture when selling offcuts with a few holes in them could turn a greater profit?" way.

    I might be more impressed if the tooth marks from the dado block had been cleaned out, but frankly I'd be ashamed to offer something like this at $55 plus shipping and a turnaround of 3-5 weeks. Furthermore, I'd be angry with an apprentice who couldn't make 80 of these per hour not including set up time, and the timber is essentially worthless: cut off window frame horns.

    I don't mind amateurs and retirees turning out knicknacks like this for pin money, but I know fine well that this was made using industrial machinery, and in all honesty it's an insult to professional woodworkers. [/diatribe]

    Nb : please see see post #11 below for a more measured and better informed opinion.
    Last edited by AndyT; December 4th, 2013 at 04:18 PM.

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    Senior Member Bogon07's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    AndyT, Your apprentices must be pretty good to cut, drill, dress & finish 80 of these in 60 minutes.

    So how much could professional woodworkers sell something like this for ?
    Considering the 3x2.5x4.5" lump of walnut is "worthless" and it takes less than 1 minute to make them.


    http://www.britishhardwoods.co.uk/pl...lnut-wood.html
    Here is a West Yorkshire firm supplying lengths of planed American Black Walnut approx $4.50 a meter for standard thicknesses with at least a 4 week wait.
    Then factor in drilling, cutting, more finishing, branding, quality checks, Doane Notebook etc.
    Last edited by Bogon07; December 4th, 2013 at 04:37 AM.
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    Senior Member AndyT's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Okay, it's only fair that I explain my thinking. I'm making a few assumptions: the work is to be done in a well equipped workshop at a quiet time by an apprentice who is signed off to operate all the relevant machines and is reasonably organised and motivated. There will be other productive activity going on, but not so much that people are tripping over each other or queuing for machines. All setting up and jig making is done beforehand, and the timber is already stacked up ready to go.

    There are two ways this could work. Either the timber is indeed a by-product and is already planed to finished size and just needs cutting to length, or it's bought in specially. In the latter case that would be in form of rough sawn 3 1/2" boards bought at something like £100 per cubic foot. So we'll be using about 2 cubic feet, allow another for wastage (generous) and say £10 for labour (also generous). Price per unit excluding overheads is therefore roughly £4 / $6.50, or negligible if it's a matter of recycling offcuts.

    How to do it from roughsawn boards:

    Crosscut to convenient lengths: 3 minutes
    Rip over width: 3 minutes
    Plane using 4-sider at 5m/minute (slowest speed for best finish): 5 minutes
    Crosscut to length with fine sawblade for minimal cleaning up: 8 minutes
    Plough notebook groove. Saw mounted dado heads are illegal tooling here, so this is done with a wobble saw on the spindle moulder (a bit slower and requires a jig): 10 minutes
    Bore holes. This requires an additional machine setting and a couple of jigs: 20 minutes
    Clean up on horizontal belt sander with a fine belt ... bring us up to one hour.

    That was quite tight, so maybe I'd only be pretending to be angry, which is standard practice.

    What's not included: breaking sharp edges, branding and applying two coats of pre-catalysed lacquer, and all workshop overheads. So let's add another two hours of unskilled labour (£10), and the services of a skilled polisher at an outrageous £20, bringing us to £4.50, and add an arbitrary 10% to cover everything else and call it a round £5 all in. That's $8.18 per unit today; sell them for $55 and behold the profit margin.

    Ivan said "some form of Doane paper notebook", so I don't know how much to allow for that, but if it's a Field Notes equivalent it'll presumably be something like $3 retail.

    I wouldn't sell you one for a fiver, but nor would I ask well over £30.

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Don't forget, shipping costs and the time to get them packed and delivered to the post office. Mike has a full time job as an accountant and is a one man operation. He works out of his workshop making these in his spare time. His workshop photos are on his Instagram account. His newborn daughter (literally days old when Mike and I met) plus a very young son probably accounts for a lot of that wait time. Maybe I should have included the image that Mike took and text messaged to me of my Groove being made. I forgot. Apologies. I will edit my blog post shortly. Value is in the eye of the beholder. For me the value is there. Oh, on the doane notebook, I cannot say what someone will get, it looks like it varies. I have seen some people post the cahier but other show spiral bound notebooks.




    Groove in Progress. by IvanRomero, on Flickr
    Last edited by KrazyIvan; December 4th, 2013 at 10:14 AM.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Shortly after my blog post, Mr. Dudek posted a contest on Instagram for a "Display". It closes on December 8 so go check it out! http://instagram.com/p/hfCpLXqsai/

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    Senior Member Bogon07's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    AndyT thanks for the detailed breakdown from a workshop view. Very interesting and informative.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    That was quite tight, so maybe I'd only be pretending to be angry, which is standard practice.
    Is pretending to be angry standard practice in the professional woodworking industry or forums in general ?


    KI, the parallel groove design in Mr Dudek's drill bit holder would look good on the Groove too.
    If he came to an agreement with FieldNotes to supply a Dudek branded 3-pack with the Groove I could see many of the Field Notes collectors snapping it up.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Okay, it's only fair that I explain my thinking. I'm making a few assumptions: the work is to be done in a well equipped workshop at a quiet time by an apprentice who is signed off to operate all the relevant machines and is reasonably organised and motivated. There will be other productive activity going on, but not so much that people are tripping over each other or queuing for machines. All setting up and jig making is done beforehand, and the timber is already stacked up ready to go.

    There are two ways this could work. Either the timber is indeed a by-product and is already planed to finished size and just needs cutting to length, or it's bought in specially. In the latter case that would be in form of rough sawn 3 1/2" boards bought at something like £100 per cubic foot. So we'll be using about 2 cubic feet, allow another for wastage (generous) and say £10 for labour (also generous). Price per unit excluding overheads is therefore roughly £4 / $6.50, or negligible if it's a matter of recycling offcuts.

    How to do it from roughsawn boards:

    Crosscut to convenient lengths: 3 minutes
    Rip over width: 3 minutes
    Plane using 4-sider at 5m/minute (slowest speed for best finish): 5 minutes
    Crosscut to length with fine sawblade for minimal cleaning up: 8 minutes
    Plough notebook groove. Saw mounted dado heads are illegal tooling here, so this is done with a wobble saw on the spindle moulder (a bit slower and requires a jig): 10 minutes
    Bore holes. This requires an additional machine setting and a couple of jigs: 20 minutes
    Clean up on horizontal belt sander with a fine belt ... bring us up to one hour.

    That was quite tight, so maybe I'd only be pretending to be angry, which is standard practice.

    What's not included: breaking sharp edges, branding and applying two coats of pre-catalysed lacquer, and all workshop overheads. So let's add another two hours of unskilled labour (£10), and the services of a skilled polisher at an outrageous £20, bringing us to £4.50, and add an arbitrary 10% to cover everything else and call it a round £5 all in. That's $8.18 per unit today; sell them for $55 and behold the profit margin.

    Ivan said "some form of Doane paper notebook", so I don't know how much to allow for that, but if it's a Field Notes equivalent it'll presumably be something like $3 retail.

    I wouldn't sell you one for a fiver, but nor would I ask well over £30.
    As a hobbyist woodworker myself, I think some of your times are very generous Andy T. I was going to suggest 20 mins to bore 9 holes, using a template was overboard (unless it included the time to make the template - which is a one off job). But I now see that he marks them up by hand. Still wouldn't take 20 minutes.

    HOWEVER, in another life, I was taught that MARKET VALUE isn't related to COST, but rather to what the average (reasonable) person is prepared to pay. Many people don't have access to the tools, the skills, nor the inclination to undertake this type of work and would be happy to pay the price asked. Those with the tools and the skills are not your 'average person'.

    I could make myself one and so could you, Andy T; but there will be many people who will be grateful for Mike Dudek making this clever design available.

    Btw - I don't like the idea of possibly marking a leather cover on a notebook with those sharp corners, but I can see it would be very useful as a letter rack.

    And I expect that most people would think that the dado grooves* are part of the design (maybe?) - but if it were me, I'd whip out the shoulder plane, Mr Dudek. A sharp blade would only add a few more minutes to the making time.

    Simple designs are often the best designs! Great work.

    [Postscript - *in hindsight, it looks like it was done using multiple passes with a non-dado blade. A dado would result in a smoother finish.]
    Last edited by cedargirl; December 4th, 2013 at 04:26 PM. Reason: add postscript
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Maybe I should have included the image that Mike took and text messaged to me of my Groove being made. I forgot. Apologies. I will edit my blog post shortly. Value is in the eye of the beholder. For me the value is there.
    Thanks for that, and yep, fair comment. My take on this is very much an industrial one; seeing that photo makes all the difference. Whilst the product would be the same, Mike's process is clearly much more labour intensive, and the margin much smaller than I calculated above. If he can persuade people to pay the premium for the additional work I say good luck to him.

    I'm not about to withdraw what I said previously, but I'll edit the first post to call attention to this one.

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogon07 View Post
    KI, the parallel groove design in Mr Dudek's drill bit holder would look good on the Groove too.
    If he came to an agreement with FieldNotes to supply a Dudek branded 3-pack with the Groove I could see many of the Field Notes collectors snapping it up.
    I'll pass it on.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogon07 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    That was quite tight, so maybe I'd only be pretending to be angry, which is standard practice.
    Is pretending to be angry standard practice in the professional woodworking industry or forums in general ?
    It's the time honoured way of preparing apprentices for a lifetime of unreasonable demands.

    As for forums, oh heavens no. I've recovered my equanimity now and will make a point of counting to ten in future.

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by cedargirl View Post
    As a hobbyist woodworker myself, I think some of your times are very generous Andy T. I was going to suggest 20 mins to bore 9 holes, using a template was overboard (unless it included the time to make the template - which is a one off job). But I now see that he marks them up by hand. Still wouldn't take 20 minutes.

    HOWEVER, in another life, I was taught that MARKET VALUE isn't related to COST, but rather to what the average (reasonable) person is prepared to pay. Many people don't have access to the tools, the skills, nor the inclination to undertake this type of work and would be happy to pay the price asked. Those with the tools and the skills are not your 'average person'.

    I could make myself one and so could you, Andy T; but there will be many people who will be grateful for Mike Dudek making this clever design available.

    Btw - I don't like the idea of possibly marking a leather cover on a notebook with those sharp corners, but I can see it would be very useful as a letter rack.

    And I expect that most people would think that the dado grooves* are part of the design (maybe?) - but if it were me, I'd whip out the shoulder plane, Mr Dudek. A sharp blade would only add a few more minutes to the making time.

    Simple designs are often the best designs! Great work.

    [Postscript - *in hindsight, it looks like it was done using multiple passes with a non-dado blade. A dado would result in a smoother finish.]
    All good points, except that in fact that's 20 minutes for 720 holes ... it was at that point I decided not to give my hypothetical apprentice too hard a time. Doable, but definitely asking a lot.

    As for perceived value, well I don't see it but my viewpoint is far from average in this case. Now, if it were over-veneered with a flashy walnut burr, that would definitely add value, but it would also substantially complicate the manufacturing process.

    Oh, and agreed about that saw blade, it's very clear in the shot of the "Display" model. I'd place a modest wager on a radial arm saw, and I'd like to see the bottom cleaned up too.

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Shortly after my blog post, Mr. Dudek posted a contest on Instagram for a "Display". It closes on December 8 so go check it out! http://instagram.com/p/hfCpLXqsai/
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Now, if it were over-veneered with a flashy walnut burr, that would definitely add value, but it would also substantially complicate the manufacturing process.
    I like this second design better. It would be a really cute addition to my desk at work. And If I were to paying $55 plus shipping for it, I would expect a nice and soft veneer like the one Andy suggested.
    Kai

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by kaisnowbird View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Now, if it were over-veneered with a flashy walnut burr, that would definitely add value, but it would also substantially complicate the manufacturing process.
    I like this second design better. It would be a really cute addition to my desk at work. And If I were to paying $55 plus shipping for it, I would expect a nice and soft veneer like the one Andy suggested.
    While I like the test-tube holder look of this one I suspect it could be more susceptible to being accidentally knocked over especially with longer pens in it. It would be good for showing off your pens or demonstrators filled with vivid inks.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Yep. I would have blu-tacked the thing to my desk.

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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post

    All good points, except that in fact that's 20 minutes for 720 holes ...
    Whack!! (A bit if self-flagellation) Sorry for misreading.
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    Default Re: The Groove - A Pen and Notebook Holder

    I stick to cedargirl comment:
    "HOWEVER, in another life, I was taught that MARKET VALUE isn't related to COST, but rather to what the average (reasonable) person is prepared to pay. Many people don't have access to the tools, the skills, nor the inclination to undertake this type of work and would be happy to pay the price asked. Those with the tools and the skills are not your 'average person'. "
    If someone likes it and is ready to pay for it , what's the big deal?.
    I, for myself, would'nt buy it. I'd like to copy it and do it myself (just for me not for selling) but, Hey! that's me.
    Let all flowers bloom
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