Harlequin/Jester WARNING

[pengeezer]

"I would also like to hear an official FPN take on the situation, but I imagine that nothing will ever come to light. Dare mention it and the thread will be locked. That certainly seems to be the case from what I can see."

Unfortunately,I too suspect that this will be the case.


John

[mhosea]

Sad that it has to be that way, but what are you going to do, eh?

I just show up and do my thing wherever I'm logged on, try not to run afoul of the management, etc. However, my basic plan for FPN right now is generally to contribute to threads only when I feel that I have something definitely useful to add. That is to say, I don't mind writing a few paragraphs on the pros and cons of silicone sacs that I've experienced first-hand, but I'm not very inclined right now to discuss, say, which ink looks the most like red roses.

[79spitfire]

What if Jester and Benz are not the same actual person, but relatives in the same house?

Granted, it would look 'fishy' now, and in a situation such as this, users from the same house would not typically be allowed to be in the same contest, but were there any rules preventing any such entrants?

[Tony Rex]

But which one?

Ps. http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/pabl...-jugglers-1905

[Jon Szanto]

What if Jester and Benz are not the same actual person, but relatives in the same house?

Granted, it would look 'fishy' now, and in a situation such as this, users from the same house would not typically be allowed to be in the same contest, but were there any rules preventing any such entrants?

Just exactly how probable do you think this is, especially in light of the ongoing posting?

[pengeezer]

What if Jester and Benz are not the same actual person, but relatives in the same house?

Granted, it would look 'fishy' now, and in a situation such as this, users from the same house would not typically be allowed to be in the same contest, but were there any rules preventing any such entrants?

Just exactly how probable do you think this is, especially in light of the ongoing posting?

Even if such were to be possible,I think the law calls it collusion.......


John

[mhosea]

What if Jester and Benz are not the same actual person, but relatives in the same house?

Same handwriting?

[Annie]

Forgive me if this has been answered, but where is the TWSBI now?

With BENZ? = Jester as far as I am concerned.
TWSBI sent Jester the pen to give as the Competition prize, Jester drew the prize on the grounds that he did not enter.......

Ah, I see. From all of the above it seems there is enough suspicion to conclude something fishy. What to do about it though?

[Paul-H]

We could all contact their list of forum sponsors and tell them that whilst they are funding that dodgy lot they will never see any of your money.

[pengeezer]

We could all contact their list of forum sponsors and tell them that whilst they are funding that dodgy lot they will never see any of your money.

While we all would like to see justice and a "happy-ever-after" ending,
it's best to let this play itself out. Yes,we know that we probably won't see any results from any sort
of discipline meted out--if any IS meted out--but if things like that continue,they will show themselves
for who they are and hopefully others will avoid their website.


John

[alc3261]

What if Jester and Benz are not the same actual person, but relatives in the same house?

Granted, it would look 'fishy' now, and in a situation such as this, users from the same house would not typically be allowed to be in the same contest, but were there any rules preventing any such entrants?

No, Jester's wife did enter.

[Jon Szanto]

We could all contact their list of forum sponsors and tell them that whilst they are funding that dodgy lot they will never see any of your money.

No matter how convinced any person is, the bottom line is this is still suspicion and conjecture. No one has proof, and it would be best left for people to continue to investigate. Only when there is concrete evidence of a scam or inappropriate activity should a step like contacting sponsors in such a manner be taken.

[alc3261]

We could all contact their list of forum sponsors and tell them that whilst they are funding that dodgy lot they will never see any of your money.

No matter how convinced any person is, the bottom line is this is still suspicion and conjecture. No one has proof, and it would be best left for people to continue to investigate. Only when there is concrete evidence of a scam or inappropriate activity should a step like contacting sponsors in such a manner be taken.

Someone (not the original people actually involved) did forward this thread to TWSBI

[mhosea]

As a mathematician who also understands the difference between the sort of logic used in mathematics and the sort of logic used in the enforcement and application of law, I think it is more than "suspicion and conjecture". I mean, to some degree, everything determined in a court of law is "suspicion and conjecture" going by the rigor required when proving things mathematically, so one can always say that nothing is really proven in life. This is in contrast to mathematics, where one can always counter that it's all based on some unproven axioms, so what have you really proven anyway? Epistemology is a "beech".

However, I also think there is nothing to do. I'm not a moderator on FPN, so you will have to excuse me for thinking that not being a moderator on FPN anymore isn't tantamount to capital punishment. I thought I had a pretty good life going here, but I guess being a moderator on FPN might be a whole other world. How would I know? Anyway, what happens on FPN is for Wim to decide. I think for the rest of us the arduous task of sorting out the meaning of various pieces of information has inevitably blown the whole thing out of proportion. It's just a TWSBI. Let him have it, but factor it in to your vigilance level should you find yourself in a position of doing business with him in future.

[Tony Rex]

That's pretty nauseating.

Look, one of the reasons that threads like this go on and on is that there are ample opportunities to branch out to related topics. Call it thread drift, call it discussion, it happens, just as it has happened here. I don't ever want to be accused of taking a thread so far OT that it becomes meaningless, but if one puts credence in the information that links Harlequin with Benz, it becomes very troubling.

And I'll be blunt, direct, and completely transparent: I tried to be very even-handed when FPN was down, welcoming people to their visit to FPG, whether or not it was a layover or an addition to their daily forums. I tried to ameliorate any of the truly nasty sniping in either direction, and even posted notice when FPN came back online. I've sent good wishes to Wim in a PM over there, because - like him/his style or not, no one could possibly wish that kind of hassle on anyone, and I was glad when they got it resolved.

So, having said that, as soon as I knew they were back online, I ticked down the minutes to one event: one particular person over there would make snide comments impugning the entire community here at FPG. It was like bleedin' clockwork, it was, and he came through like a charm. And even when I did my small bit to stick up for Dan and all of the rest of FPG in the face of this, he still acted up. It was enough, frankly, to take it up with the mods. I did.

So when I see Benz thanking this complete asshole, that pretty much seals the deal for me. I wish both forums well, I always have, and I very carefully separate the entire group from the individuals. I have to do that, because every group, even the best of them, contains some real pieces of work, people who exemplify the lowest common denominator. Sad that it has to be that way, but what are you going to do, eh?

My 0.02 bitcoins.

I just found the whole banter. Wow.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...2#entry2858796

[mhosea]

I just found the whole banter. Wow.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...2#entry2858796

Well, a big thanks are due to Jon for trying. Apparently moderation is a bit lax on FPN as well as long as you're criticizing FPG and anybody who likes FPG. Speaking of reasons to like FPG, somebody roll Stephen out of bed, put a bottle of ink in his left hand, a handful of pens in his right, and sit him down for another Inkcyclopedia entry, please. I don't know why I like those so much, but I do.

[pengeezer]

That's pretty nauseating.

Look, one of the reasons that threads like this go on and on is that there are ample opportunities to branch out to related topics. Call it thread drift, call it discussion, it happens, just as it has happened here. I don't ever want to be accused of taking a thread so far OT that it becomes meaningless, but if one puts credence in the information that links Harlequin with Benz, it becomes very troubling.

And I'll be blunt, direct, and completely transparent: I tried to be very even-handed when FPN was down, welcoming people to their visit to FPG, whether or not it was a layover or an addition to their daily forums. I tried to ameliorate any of the truly nasty sniping in either direction, and even posted notice when FPN came back online. I've sent good wishes to Wim in a PM over there, because - like him/his style or not, no one could possibly wish that kind of hassle on anyone, and I was glad when they got it resolved.

So, having said that, as soon as I knew they were back online, I ticked down the minutes to one event: one particular person over there would make snide comments impugning the entire community here at FPG. It was like bleedin' clockwork, it was, and he came through like a charm. And even when I did my small bit to stick up for Dan and all of the rest of FPG in the face of this, he still acted up. It was enough, frankly, to take it up with the mods. I did.

So when I see Benz thanking this complete asshole, that pretty much seals the deal for me. I wish both forums well, I always have, and I very carefully separate the entire group from the individuals. I have to do that, because every group, even the best of them, contains some real pieces of work, people who exemplify the lowest common denominator. Sad that it has to be that way, but what are you going to do, eh?

My 0.02 bitcoins.

I just found the whole banter. Wow.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...2#entry2858796

Tony,I've met Bruce in person,and he does tend to be the bull in the
china shop that crashes through without thinking. Reminds me of a comment once made by an
acquaintance--"That person has a mind like cement--thoroughly mixed and firmly set."
Unfortunately,people like that don't want to hear both sides of an argument--they might
have to swallow their pride. To do that,however,is more than they can bear.



John

[Jon Szanto]

...I think it is more than "suspicion and conjecture".

Probably a poor turn of phrase on my part. The main thrust of my reply was to say that - to me - what I had been apprised of did not raise to the level by where I would publicly (or otherwise) start withdrawing my support of manufacturers, vendors, or venues. I feel clear within my own opinion of what must have transpired, but can't advise others, at this point, to turn it into any form of concrete action.

I just found the whole banter. Wow.

Well, yeah. I truly was not meaning bring this to the forefront or make it a new aspect of the thread to vent over. It is what it is, and I've dealt with it and hope to move forward from it. As John indicates, some people are beyond reason and dialogue, and all that looms down the path of following this any further (for me) is negativity. Not something I relish in my daily life, and very much not something I want to promote or encourage here.

[HughC]

I just found the whole banter. Wow.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...2#entry2858796

People have strong opinions at times, Bruce isn't the "shy" type and I actually prefer people to be open about their opinions and he certainly expresses them as he sees it. More to the point is the "selective" moderation, especially from the mod who ticked Jon for being nice and unbiased (noting he refrained from the descipition of Bruce used here !!)....one of the really poor performers over there which is surprising as she's a "smart cookie".

Back to the OP, it's really history now and it seems that nothing will be resolved.

Regards
Hugh

[Jon Szanto]

(noting he refrained from the descipition of Bruce used here !!)

When in Rome, Hugh, when in Rome! Yeah, I calibrated it with specific intent: I wanted my comments to remain, not get stricken, because my point was not about myself or how I felt about his comments, but to speak on behalf of others who were being mischaracterized.

I note that my comments there do, indeed, remain.