Banned from FPN?

[migo984]

dannzeman

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post in detail. Much appreciated.

I hope my post was not taken as being a criticism of your forum - indeed it was not intended to be that; I like the personality of this forum, and the laid-back, easy-going nature, a lot. That is a credit to you, and your philosophy. My intent was just to point out that, as a new member, I felt uncomfortable with some of the personal criticism being posted. As you rightly say in your reply, if you don't like something then you have the option to leave - and hopefully the grace to leave it at that (at least in open forums)
In terms of FPN, I am aware of the discontent and the reasons for that, but I think if one signs up as a member of any board or forum then you are by default accepting the rules and culture/ethos of that forum. I feel constrained there but my reason for using that forum means that I can live with the strength of moderation - at least at the level it is now. I have no experience at all of any issues arising due to "outside" activities (your comment made me regret my boringly compliant and conformist lifestyle LOL).

Anyway as you can see I am wont to ramble on at length so I'll stop now. Thank you once again for your reply. And if it's OK I'd like to pull up a pew and hang around :-)

[Jon Szanto]

Thank you, Dan. In just a couple of short paragraphs, you've articulated precisely why I enjoy this forum so much, and why I make this my primary pen-centric online home.

Heh. I was going to say more, but I think I'll just leave it at that!

[dannzeman]

dannzeman

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post in detail. Much appreciated.

I hope my post was not taken as being a criticism of your forum - indeed it was not intended to be that; I like the personality of this forum, and the laid-back, easy-going nature, a lot. That is a credit to you, and your philosophy. My intent was just to point out that, as a new member, I felt uncomfortable with some of the personal criticism being posted. As you rightly say in your reply, if you don't like something then you have the option to leave - and hopefully the grace to leave it at that (at least in open forums)
In terms of FPN, I am aware of the discontent and the reasons for that, but I think if one signs up as a member of any board or forum then you are by default accepting the rules and culture/ethos of that forum. I feel constrained there but my reason for using that forum means that I can live with the strength of moderation - at least at the level it is now. I have no experience at all of any issues arising due to "outside" activities (your comment made me regret my boringly compliant and conformist lifestyle LOL).

Anyway as you can see I am wont to ramble on at length so I'll stop now. Thank you once again for your reply. And if it's OK I'd like to pull up a pew and hang around :-)

You're welcome. I didn't see your post as being critical.

If you ever get to the point where you feel that you would need to leave the community please let me know so we can discuss the issue. I hope that would be the last resort and I'd do everything in my power to find a resolution between all the parties involved.

You're more than welcome to get comfy and stick around. The more the merrier!

[HughC]

dannzeman

I have no experience at all of any issues arising due to "outside" activities (your comment made me regret my boringly compliant and conformist lifestyle LOL).

I have, suffice to say I declined Wims absurd demands for an apology as he seemed to think because I was a member of the FPN then I had entered into a "privacy" agreement with him....classic example of a control freak who uses simple bullying tactics to steamroll anyone who he decides has been "naughty" As for arrogance...

BTW, we will not reply to any messages here, just were notified that people were having problems.

Kindest regards, Wim
FPN Admin

this says it all. Using this forum when it suits him but contribute nothing, sorry but he's a sad and pathetic person on a power driven ego trip imo. The FPN has potential but under new ownership.

Regards
Hugh

[dannzeman]

Seriously, Hugh, can you not make your point without the personal insults?

[MY63]

I just wanted to say that I also felt a little unsure of the ways here on FPG as opposed to FPN I had wrongly assumed the looser moderation meant no moderation at all and clearly that is not the case.
I think a lot of what I first thought was bullying was more like banter and the language used is not as restricted as fpn but it is the language in use everyday.
I intend to spend more time here even when fpn returns and I apologise in advance if my projects bore you.
Thanks
Michael

[CS388]

...edit...
And there's only so many times you can check Ebay to see how much you got outbid by....

Interesting. I wonder if sales of fountain pens increase on ebay, when FPN is down - as members try to satiate their FP habit online?

Could make for a lucrative arrangement (if we put our scruples aside for a moment).

[Sinistral1]

I am happy to have found refuge here and as soon as I have time will contribute the only two ink reviews I have done, provided they are needed.

I was able to change my pen boutique order today with y'alls' help regarding the status of gold sheen (or not) in the different formulas of J Herbin 1670 Rouge Hematite after finding that Zeller's site actually specifies it's bottles do contain the gold sheen formula. I will be calling in my order to them on Monday.

I also believe in "principals over personalities" and wish there were more venues in life where open, honest discussion, even of issues that are difficult or emotional, were available and safe. It can be very hard to venture into the fear of judgment, disapproval and possible rejection, but almost always is a growing experience for me. Who would have thought the world of pens, ink and paper would be so zen?

[david i]

Seriously, Hugh, can you not make your point without the personal insults?

Hi,

In all fairness, while "bullying", "power trip","absurd demands for an apology ", "power driven ego trip imo." are emphatic terms, and while at least one is qualified by "my opinion" (which might map onto the other terms too), and while Hugh's terms are to a degree civilian terms rather than formal medical/psychiatric jargon (in all fairness Hugh is not a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist), I admit I see them more as observational/emphatic than as personal insult. Obviously, to each his own, and of course your view carries considerable weight since this is your arena, but I am willing to stick up for Hugh to a point on this one.

Recognizing I have views of the specific players in this case, I would still offer the tidbit-- speaking as a seasoned physician who really does deal with many psychiatric patients-- that the disconnect shown in notes by the fellow Hugh addresses , posts that threaten harm while carrying the closer, "warmest regards", indicates significant pathology.

Sorry if this stirs the pot. I mean no harm.

regards

David

[dannzeman]

Seriously, Hugh, can you not make your point without the personal insults?

Hi,

In all fairness, while "bullying", "power trip","absurd demands for an apology ", "power driven ego trip imo." are emphatic terms, and while at least one is qualified by "my opinion" (which might map onto the other terms too), and while Hugh's terms are to a degree civilian terms rather than formal medical/psychiatric jargon (in all fairness Hugh is not a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist), I admit I see them more as observational/emphatic than as personal insult. Obviously, to each his own, and of course your view carries considerable weight since this is your arena, but I am willing to stick up for Hugh to a point on this one.

Recognizing I have views of the specific players in this case, I would still offer the tidbit-- peaking as a seasoned physician who really does deal with many psychiatric patients-- that the disconnect shown in notes by the fellow Hugh addresses , posts that threaten harm while carrying the closer, "warmest regards", indicates significant pathology.

Sorry if this stirs the pot. I mean no harm.

regards

David

Regarding the specific terms you quoted, I can't say I disagree. But when Hugh says Wim is "sad and pathetic", that's where it crosses the line into insults.

Even if Wim does see a doctor and their professional assessment is that he's sad and pathetic, it's still inappropriate to say such things here.

[Jon Szanto]

I've grown very fond of Hugh over the last couple years, I very deeply am in awe of his pen knowledge, and we've had good private conversations too, but there is no doubt that his personal enmity towards Wim is usually simmering just beneath the surface. There are issues, and then there are people. I wish all concerned could focus as much on the former as possible, including Hugh. To the degree that it doesn't can be a disappointment.

[david i]

Seriously, Hugh, can you not make your point without the personal insults?

Hi,

In all fairness, while "bullying", "power trip","absurd demands for an apology ", "power driven ego trip imo." are emphatic terms, and while at least one is qualified by "my opinion" (which might map onto the other terms too), and while Hugh's terms are to a degree civilian terms rather than formal medical/psychiatric jargon (in all fairness Hugh is not a psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist), I admit I see them more as observational/emphatic than as personal insult. Obviously, to each his own, and of course your view carries considerable weight since this is your arena, but I am willing to stick up for Hugh to a point on this one.

Recognizing I have views of the specific players in this case, I would still offer the tidbit-- peaking as a seasoned physician who really does deal with many psychiatric patients-- that the disconnect shown in notes by the fellow Hugh addresses , posts that threaten harm while carrying the closer, "warmest regards", indicates significant pathology.

Sorry if this stirs the pot. I mean no harm.

regards

David

Regarding the specific terms you quoted, I can't say I disagree. But when Hugh says Wim is "sad and pathetic", that's where it crosses the line into insults.

Even if Wim does see a doctor and their professional assessment is that he's sad and pathetic, it's still inappropriate to say such things here.

I hear you.

On the scale of heated exchanges that occur in hot-button topics like this, "sad and pathetic" is at least strong opinion. If true it might not be frank insult but "truth' can be a bit gray (rather than black and white) in such circumstances. I certainly defer issues of appropriateness to you, as even true things can be inflammatory and can be unnecessarily inflammatory, no doubt, and it is fair to try keep things non-inflammatory.

I have found this an engaging thread. One can but imagine it would be hard to have this chat at FPN, even if FPN were not in limbo right now

regards

david

[HughC]

Seriously, Hugh, can you not make your point without the personal insults?

Hi Dan,

I don't consider it as insulting, rather an opinion formed from my dealings with Wim and observing his actions in relation to the FPN , he may well be a different person outside that arena. If he was more open and engaging in a forum he doesn't control I'd hold him in a higher opinion but his form on that is clear to all, his choice of interacting with others does shape how others view him and , of course, he probably has a number of people who see him in a very different light to me....that's life...and they can have their views. Openness and honesty ( a transparent process) is the hallmark of someone who deserves respect whether you agree or disagree with them, the absence of such leads to opinions such as mine.

Wim is a rather secretive individual, suffice to say he probably has at least one other handle he posts with both on the FPN and elsewhere (and probably a very obvious one when you think about it, I reckon I could name it with a degree of confidence). Of course who is Wim? ( again there are pointers) but he's so well hidden he probably finds all this one big joke !! Really any comments directed at Wim are directed at someone nobody actually knows, who doesn't use his real name and to all intensive purposes is just a front....bit like yelling at the computer screen...fun but ineffective..

Regards
Hugh

[piscov]

Read bellow, please.

[piscov]

It's so kind of the FPG folks to allow us a bit of space in this regard. Thank you for making it possible for FPNers to have some notion of what is going on.

I have the feeling the opposite would not be possible and probably would be deleted, but is very good to be part of FPG!!!!!!

[Pterodactylus]

After a very unpleasant thread here about half a year ago which was driven mainly by one embittered ex FPN member I completely understand Wim that he doesn't want to discuss anything here.

I don't understand ex FPN members which always harp on how wrong in their opinion the way is FPN is running.

It is quite simple, if you don't like the rules or how a forum is running, go away and search for a different playground nobody force you to participate.
Full stop.

Personally I had never a single problem with Wim or how he runs FPN.
I observed him always as a helpful and very responsive person.

[david i]

After a very unpleasant thread here about half a year ago which was driven mainly by one embittered ex FPN member I completely understand Wim that he doesn't want to discuss anything here.

I don't understand ex FPN members which always harp on how wrong in their opinion the way is FPN is running.

It is quite simple, if you don't like the rules or how a forum is running, go away and search for a different playground nobody force you to participate.
Full stop.

Personally I had never a single problem with Wim or how he runs FPN.
I observed him always as a helpful and very responsive person.

It is accepted that you don't understand this.

That is your right.

regards

david

[Sinistral1]

I like to "illustrate" my thoughts using images described with words. I can tend to be verbose and my sentences break all grammar rules, but here's what I think it's fair and safe to say:

When I want information to study and enlighten to it's utter completeness, I go to a library. I can sit by myself in the back and search and read and ponder and question, then go get more data to search and read, and so on, for as long and with as many subjects as I want to study and learn about. I want the librarian to manage the data and make sure I have full access to it, as well as provide a quiet place for me to study. I accept that I might be shown the door if I behave in a way that disturbs others in their pursuit of information. The librarian may or may not be either mentally unstable or a mean-ass control freak, they are doing what they believe to provide me and everyone else a n specific kind of "place" to spend my time.

If, however, my desire is to do a little studying AND also say "Hey" to some of my buds AND grab some espresso and a piece of carrot cake, the better place to be is down the block from the library at the coffee shop with free wifi and little tables and soft leather arm chairs. The din is significant and even though my friends and I share a lot of common interests, we also have some major differences are are not afraid to discuss them openly and with passion, and don't worry about offending the guy at the next table, because he wouldn't be here if that was an issue for him. The give and take can get loud and intense, but it's fun and we know the management likes it that way.

I know what to expect at the library and I know what to expect at the coffee shop. Both places are important, although I do lean a little more toward the library because I'm such an information hound. But, it does my social life good to relax and have fun, so I like to join the gang at the coffee shop to laugh and hang out, too. It's all cool.

Now, if I want to really relax and have dancing on the table kind of fun, I leave the coffee shop and take a cab to The Halftime Rec on Como Ave. That's the Irish pub where the crowd is loud, the music is fan-friging-tastic and everybody throws the peanut shells on the floor! Whoo-hoo!!

No right or wrong, no good or bad. Just me and you, and our pens, yeah?

[migo984]

Hi Sinistral1

I just posted a new thread in The Lounge about aphorisms, then came here & read your post above. The reference you made to the din of the coffee shop was a coincidence that made me snort into my cuppa! Thanks for unintentionally giving me a laugh. Good post

[Pterodactylus]

After a very unpleasant thread here about half a year ago which was driven mainly by one embittered ex FPN member I completely understand Wim that he doesn't want to discuss anything here.

I don't understand ex FPN members which always harp on how wrong in their opinion the way is FPN is running.

It is quite simple, if you don't like the rules or how a forum is running, go away and search for a different playground nobody force you to participate.
Full stop.

Personally I had never a single problem with Wim or how he runs FPN.
I observed him always as a helpful and very responsive person.

It is accepted that you don't understand this.

That is your right.

regards

david

We already clarified the fronts some time ago and I will not discuss anything with you anymore.