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Thread: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

  1. #41
    Member Koyote's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Geez, 1ml is pretty pathetic for a piston filler. I'm pretty sure that I can get that much into some converters. It's pretty bad when the pen called "Classic" has less capacity than one called "Mini."

    Dan, regarding the piston: I only stated that "All other piston fillers I have owned have drawn full loads of ink without this workaround" to get a full fill. (Emphasis added.) This is not just a function of the ink window, as my Aurora Optima and the Pelikan M600 I owned will both a full load of ink (no noticeable air bubble), and both have windows.

    Regarding the piston's travel and the ink capacity: don't forget that the Classic is thinner than the 530/540 -- hence the same travel will still give smaller capacity.

    I have been writing with the pen a bit today, and I must say that it is more usable than I had thought: I can see using it for note-taking during meetings and such. And I do like the faceted barrel, as it means I can set the pen down without worrying that it will roll off my desk.
    Last edited by Koyote; January 4th, 2014 at 04:19 PM.

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    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Geez, 1ml is pretty pathetic for a piston filler. I'm pretty sure that I can get that much into some converters.
    Just for reference, a standard international converter holds 0.8mL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Dan, regarding the piston: I only stated that "All other piston fillers I have owned have drawn full loads of ink without this workaround" to get a full fill. (Emphasis added.) This is not just a function of the ink window, as my Aurora Optima and the Pelikan M600 I owned will both a full load of ink (no noticeable air bubble), and both have windows.

    Regarding the piston's travel and the ink capacity: don't forget that the Classic is thinner than the 530/540 -- hence the same travel will still give smaller capacity.

    I have been writing with the pen a bit today, and I must say that it is more usable than I had thought: I can see using it for note-taking during meetings and such. And I do like the faceted barrel, as it means I can set the pen down without worrying that it will roll off my desk.
    I didn't say it was a function of the ink window. I said it's a function of the distance between the piston and the feed. My solution for the Classic was to remove the ink window to bring the feed closer to the piston. With both of the pens you mentioned, the piston travels the length of the ink window and butts up against the feed.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    Just for reference, a standard international converter holds 0.8mL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Dan, regarding the piston: I only stated that "All other piston fillers I have owned have drawn full loads of ink without this workaround" to get a full fill. (Emphasis added.) This is not just a function of the ink window, as my Aurora Optima and the Pelikan M600 I owned will both a full load of ink (no noticeable air bubble), and both have windows.

    Regarding the piston's travel and the ink capacity: don't forget that the Classic is thinner than the 530/540 -- hence the same travel will still give smaller capacity.

    I have been writing with the pen a bit today, and I must say that it is more usable than I had thought: I can see using it for note-taking during meetings and such. And I do like the faceted barrel, as it means I can set the pen down without worrying that it will roll off my desk.
    I didn't say it was a function of the ink window. I said it's a function of the distance between the piston and the feed. My solution for the Classic was to remove the ink window to bring the feed closer to the piston. With both of the pens you mentioned, the piston travels the length of the ink window and butts up against the feed.
    Okay, I'm not trying to be dense, but you did mention the presence of an ink window as a factor, and now you are suggesting that removing the ink window from the Classic would "bring the feed closer to the piston." Why couldn't the pen have been designed to have both an ink window AND a piston which travels all the way to the feed, like the Lamy 2000, Pel M600, etc? Sure, that would mean that the classic would not have the steep step in the section, but that doesn't seem to be a popular design feature anyway. This just seems like another design feature (like the non-posting cap) that is just plain weird.

    By the way, I believe a Pilot Con-70 converter holds at least 1ml of ink; a standard Waterman cartridge holds more than 1ml of ink. Just sayin'.

  4. #44
    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Okay, I'm not trying to be dense, but you did mention the presence of an ink window as a factor, and now you are suggesting that removing the ink window from the Classic would "bring the feed closer to the piston." Why couldn't the pen have been designed to have both an ink window AND a piston which travels all the way to the feed, like the Lamy 2000, Pel M600, etc? Sure, that would mean that the classic would not have the steep step in the section, but that doesn't seem to be a popular design feature anyway. This just seems like another design feature (like the non-posting cap) that is just plain weird.
    (emphasis above is mine)
    The pen could have easily been designed with both those features but then that would have changed the fundamental design of the pen. Look at the pens you suggest, the Lamy 2000 and Pelikan M600. Both of those pens feature a cap that overlaps the barrel and an ink window that's integrated into the barrel so that the piston can pass through it. The Classic is designed as a pen where the cap and barrel are flush when the cap is attached. If an ink window is desired it can either placed where it currently is on the Classic or on the barrel right below the cap. Personally, I think the latter would break up the lines of the pen too much and look terrible.

    So why didn't they make a piston that was small enough to fit inside the ink window and travel far enough to touch the feed? Probably because it wouldn't make a difference. Well, except there wouldn't be an air bubble. But then that doesn't really make a difference either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    By the way, I believe a Pilot Con-70 converter holds at least 1ml of ink; a standard Waterman cartridge holds more than 1ml of ink.
    Of course there's converters and cartridges that hold more than the piston in the Classic. I was providing a reference to a common, widely used converter to put it into perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Just sayin'.
    Yes, I know. Because you just said it.

  5. #45
    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    You can't say that about all other piston fillers because it's not just an issue with the piston itself. The entire design of the pen comes into play. The only way an air bubble can be avoided is if the head of the piston is as close to the back of the feed as possible. Look at the design of the Classic (and the Diamond 500 series pens) and you'll see the piston head doesn't come anywhere near the end of the feed. A full fill with no air bubbles could have been possible on the Classic if TWSBI didn't include the ink window and shorted the section so the feed was closer to the piston, but then you'd hear people complain about not having an ink window.

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    ...
    About the piston, I agree that it isn't up to the standards of the mini or 580...the piston shaft doesn't fit precisely into the other part...
    I'm not sure I agree with you but I also don't understand exactly what you're talking about. Can you use the parts diagram included in the case to be more specific? I'll attach it below:

    Attachment 8459

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    ... and while my knob isn't wobbly while filling, that lack of quality can be seen while greasing the piston head. The ink capacity is not anywhere near where it should be for this type of pen because the piston draw is not as long as it should be. One would think in this day of injection molded plastic parts that they would be able to make a telescoping piston easily...
    I've inquired about whether this piston is made in house or outsourced but I haven't heard back. The piston in the Classic actually has the capability to travel just as far as the one in the 540 (sorry, I don't have a 580 to test):

    Attachment 8460
    Attachment 8461

    But when the piston is set to max travel the piston knob won't fully seat against the barrel:

    Attachment 8462

    And just for giggles I measured the capacity of the 540, Mini, and the Classic:

    540: 1.7mL
    Mini: 1.3mL
    Classic: 1.0mL (I was able to get as much as 1.3mL with the piston set to max travel).

    The measurements were done with a single fill without expelling the air bubbles. It's the practical capacity one would experience in real use, not theoretical capacity.
    I was refering to a wobble between 10 and 11. Also, thanks for those pictures...I thought the piston was not designed to go all the way to the connector...and thus was harking on them...but now I realize my piston came to me with a draw less than maximum, and after I took it out, I probably messed it up more. I will flush the pen and take the mechanism out, and then report a ink capacity.
    Will
    If my p.m box is full, feel free to email me at dabantur@gmail.com.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Dan, I understand what you are saying regarding the section step and etc. That is what I was trying to state: that they could have designed the section (and cap) differently to accommodate in ink-view window and a piston that travels all the way to the feed. This would have given more ink capacity. I understand that would mean a cap that rides over the pen barrel, but that would also mean that there would be no steep step in the section; the step is not a problem for me, but others have commented negatively on it - which is why I think it would have been a good decision for TWSBI. Hey, it works for plenty of other mfrs: Pelikan, Lamy, Aurora, etc.

    To add to fountainpenkid's comment: on my Classic, the piston knob allows a bit of side-to-side play when it is extended/unscrewed, which is something I've not experienced on other piston-fillers. It is not reassuring.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by dannzeman View Post
    About the piston, I agree that it isn't up to the standards of the mini or 580...the piston shaft doesn't fit precisely into the other part...
    I'm not sure I agree with you but I also don't understand exactly what you're talking about. Can you use the parts diagram included in the case to be more specific? I'll attach it below:
    Attachment 8459
    [/QUOTE]

    Dan, is this parts diagram for the new classic? Hope not, it looks like the same section assembly design as the 5x series had
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Inky fingers.JPG

    Well, all of the discussion about the piston, the step in the section, etc, are pretty irrelevant if the pen doesn't work properly -- and yesterday, at only two days old, mine started leaking from around the ink-view window.

    I have contacted TWSBI. At this point, I really cannot recommend this pen.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    I bent the fins of the feed while trying to remove the nib; will have to send it to them.
    Will
    If my p.m box is full, feel free to email me at dabantur@gmail.com.

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    The Nibsmith dannzeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    I bent the fins of the feed while trying to remove the nib; will have to send it to them.
    Did you try just straightening the fins? I bent mine and they came back perfect.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
    Attachment 8459


    Dan, is this parts diagram for the new classic? Hope not, it looks like the same section assembly design as the 5x series had
    Yes, it's for the Classic.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    I just posted my disassembly video:


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    auto winder (January 6th, 2014), Flounder (January 6th, 2014), fountainpenkid (January 7th, 2014), Jeph (January 6th, 2014), kaisnowbird (January 6th, 2014)

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Presumably there's some sort of manufacturing reason why they can't just mould one complete barrel & section unit (besides the ink window).
    It just puzzles me that TWSBI have stuck with this section layout so long after the 530 and 540, when they already have a more secure design in the 700 series. Where's the advantage?
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    I just posted the video review at the blog. Awesome Review coming soon!


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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Anymore folks try the new TWSBI. I'll wait for Dans review. I like this pen but unsure about the pens construction at the present time.

  20. #56
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Anymore folks try the new TWSBI. I'll wait for Dans review. I like this pen but unsure about the pens construction at the present time.
    What about the construction are you unsure of?

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    Senior Member Woody's Avatar
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Unsure of the gab noticed at the end of the barrel after filling. Perhaps I missed something Dan, but the screw section at the end of the barrel showed a small gab after a fill.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Unsure of the gab noticed at the end of the barrel after filling. Perhaps I missed something Dan, but the screw section at the end of the barrel showed a small gab after a fill.
    Mine has the same thing..the threading on the inside of the barrel actually slides slightly...
    Will
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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody View Post
    Unsure of the gab noticed at the end of the barrel after filling. Perhaps I missed something Dan, but the screw section at the end of the barrel showed a small gab after a fill.
    Hmm. That is where mine started leaking after two whole days of use. And I did check to make sure that the section was screwed tightly into the barrel.

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    Default Re: TWSBI Classic ! (?)

    Yay~ looking forward to the Awesome Review.

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