Frozen Ink

[fpquest]

I ordered a bottle of ink recently forgetting about the weather and that it might sit in my mailbox overnight if it arrived on the wrong day. It arrived on the wrong day. The ink was mostly frozen but not enough to break the bottle. I would expect the ink to be OK once it thaws. Should I be thinking something else? Thanks.

[cwent2]

I am not an expert either, however I saw or heard in one of the Anderson's pod casts they were discussing this very issue - the major concern is breaking the bottle - they said if ice did form as ink is like 90% water, no harm would come after it thawed.

[fpquest]

I am not an expert either, however I saw or heard in one of the Anderson's pod casts they were discussing this very issue - the major concern is breaking the bottle - they said if ice did form as ink is like 90% water, no harm would come after it thawed.

Thanks. I'll let it thaw and give it a try tomorrow.

[Tracy Lee]

Important to not open until ink has thawed. That is the advice from all the videos out there. Where I live I am more worried about ink cooking, not freezing. :/ Good luck, let us know how it goes.

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[earthdawn]

I am not an expert either, however I saw or heard in one of the Anderson's pod casts they were discussing this very issue - the major concern is breaking the bottle - they said if ice did form as ink is like 90% water, no harm would come after it thawed.

That was going to be my reply as well... I remember Brian talking about that.

With the sudden drop in temps and snow we got today I am kind of hoping the ink I have inbound now won't arrive till Monday when it's suppose to be in the 40's

[fpquest]

Important to not open until ink has thawed. That is the advice from all the videos out there.
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Unfortunately I opened the bottle before I saw it had frozen, it had been inside awhile and wasn't so cold I noticed, but there was still a little frozen ink in there, but I'll give it a shot and let you know.

[Tracy Lee]

Important to not open until ink has thawed. That is the advice from all the videos out there.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 4

Unfortunately I opened the bottle before I saw it had frozen, it had been inside awhile and wasn't so cold I noticed, but there was still a little frozen ink in there, but I'll give it a shot and let you know.

I wonder if sort of rocking the bottles after thawing would get them all sort of properly mixed back together in case freezing caused any kind of separation. But then, I always rock my bottles up to down in between fills just to be sure. I bet that is more of an issue with some and not others. Most of all stay warm for goodness sake, you folks living where ink can freeze. Brrrrr!!!!!

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[VertOlive]

My Inner Chemist is saying "re-mix before use", but watch out for bits of precipitates...

[fpquest]

I may have to move to a more ink friendly climate This was MB Leonardo Red Chalk. No traces of ice now so I gave it a rocking then filled a pen. Seems fine. My first time using the ink so I can't say the color is perfect, but it matches the samples I see on my screen close enough. Color and flow seem fine. Maybe it won't hold up over time but seems fine now. Freezing seems better than cooking, if I had to choose.

[Sinistral1]

It was -6 degrees Fahrenheit yesterday when I got my three boxes of ink. The Mont Blanc Jonathan Swift seaweed green and Leonardo chalk red were frozen solid. The J Herbin 1670 Rouge Hemitite was about half frozen. I waited until they were all up to room temperature before I opened them. I've tested them all and they seem fine. I think it's the last time I'll order ink in the middle of the winter for delivery here to Minnesota.

[Artslut]

I understand some pen shops- in canada at least- wont ship ink in the winter for fear of freezing. I don't know, but i would guess that if one- ideally- kept the bottle closed, i cant imagine the ink being badly damaged. Someone please set me straight on this. I wonder if the greatest problem centres on burst cartridges that have been frozen and consequently burst or leaked. I used to buy cartridges from my local stationer but started noticing that a third or more would sometimes be ruined. I have stocked up on inks and have new orders sent to my toasty work address.

[cwent2]

I had not heard that you should not open a partially frozen bottle of ink. Just like I said in my first post about it should be fine after thawing.

Thinking it though I don't know what opening the bottle would do to effect the ink - I can see a point of not using the ink prior to it being completely thawed for content ratio's to remain in balance.

I would love to know the why for this. Not that I am questioning the validity of your information or advise but for the learning/understanding aspect and to satisfy my curiosity

your input is requested fellow geeks

[Artslut]

I think you are probably right, it may be course of habit. In the museum world if something is frozen - organic things anyway- one always keeps it sealed until it thaws completely so that you dont alter the moisture level of the object. With liquid, its clearly a different story, but with an over abundance of caution i would keep it closed precisely for the reason you suggest- the outside chance of altering the chemical composition. I am no chemist, and someone who knows better might think -or even know- thats unnecessary, but for the extra wee time it takes i for one am happy to wait.

[fpquest]

I think you are probably right, it may be course of habit. In the museum world if something is frozen - organic things anyway- one always keeps it sealed until it thaws completely so that you dont alter the moisture level of the object. With liquid, its clearly a different story, but with an over abundance of caution i would keep it closed precisely for the reason you suggest- the outside chance of altering the chemical composition. I am no chemist, and someone who knows better might think -or even know- thats unnecessary, but for the extra wee time it takes i for one am happy to wait.

I think your probably right, at least it makes sense to me. Force of habit is I usually let containers reach room temperature when bringing them in from the cold before opening for that reason. In this case I didn't even think of ice and while it wasn't noticeably cold it was partially frozen when I opened it after about an hour. I've got a couple more bottles on the way and even if they don't appear frozen I'll give them plenty of time to thaw out before opening the bottle.

[Waski_the_Squirrel]

Unless I desperately need ink, I don't order ink in the winter. I'm not worried about damage to the ink (when I've frozen it, it seems to survive). But, I am worried about getting a mess if the bottle bursts.

Of course, I live in North Dakota.

[klpeabody]

I have been buying ink all winter, but I have a P.O. Box so nothing has arrived frozen, yet. That being said, I didn't make any new purchases within the last week when we experienced single digit temps either. Realistically, I'm guessing that there is no avoiding the fact that the items would likely undergo a drastic temperature change while they are merely in transit at this time of year.

[MechanicalAnalogy]

Thank you for asking this question. Connecticut can get quite cold, and I had not thought about this in the least. Luckily, I haven't ordered any inks, yet.

Being a bit of a science nerd, I will give a stab at an explanation. Basically, OliveVert had the same idea I did...when a solution (something dissolved in water) gets cold, the water loses some ability to keep the "something" in that solution. Thus, you get a precipitate (solid "something" at the bottom of the bottle).

This all depends on the chemical structure of the "something" (dye, in this case). I plan on looking into this soon. However, if you do notice solids in your ink, I would try slowly heating it while mixing/rocking. Don't boil it, or anything, just getting a few degrees above room temperature.

My suggestion for how to do this would be to put some tap water in a pot and put your ink bottle in that water (tightly shut, of course....maybe even in a sealed baggy) and bring the water up to a temp that is warm to your hand, but comfortable for you to reach in and give the bottle a gentle rocking occasionally.

The explanation of not using it until it's completely thawed is right. If you pull ink out while there is ice, you are leaving behind the solid water and pulling a greater concentration of ink. This, then, leaves too much water for ink in the bottle.

Clear as mud?

[cwent2]

The statement I questioned was do not open the bottle until completely thawed.

Unless open a bottle is synonamis with using ink -

Ok I think i just found an answer to my own question - if you open the bottle you are allowing the contents to evaporate or allowing the process of sublimation to occur and thus changing the ratio of liquid/dye ratio

[kaisnowbird]

We know that many inks dry quickly, quicker than water at least. Given ink is a water solution/mixture, the quick drying ability suggests that it contains things that evaporate quickly. The evaporation while in a stable solution/mixture inside a bottle may not be particularly quick, but once the water molecules in the ink freeze, one may assume that the solute and evaporating agent get separated from water and opening the cap may allow such substance to evaporate quickly, therefore changing the remaining ink's content and properties.

Just my fanciful imagination, hopefully not to far-fetched.

[raging.dragon]

I think most of the fast drying of ink is due it soaking into the paper - thus why faster drying inks are usually more prone to feathering and bleed through. Though, it seems likely at least some inks would also include volatile components.