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Thread: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Dear Admin(s):

    We've seen a growth, with a good deal of tolerance as well, in topics that are non-pen-centric. Specifically some religious threads. People are remarking to each other for the need for self-monitoring and doing so very well. That said, I might have a suggestion if this continues to flourish.

    One methodology for keeping all of these manner of topics in line without abusive or excessive moderation is the have them in a very specific place. In one net forum I was active on, it was called "Politics, Religion, and Society", which we all abbreviated to PRS for short. The idea is that anything in that forum is expected to be of a personal nature, may very well contain thoughts that others find... different, and each and every member that takes part in those discussions bears in mind the subject matter may lead to... passion. It manages, to a very great degree, to allow for healthy and vigorous discussion while keeping these subjects all in one area, because, yes, not everyone wants general craziness in the middle of their pen stuff!

    I just thought I would throw the idea out there. And here is the sub-forum description from the aforementioned site, which I find both funny and spot-on:

    "Topics pertaining to politics, religion, philosophy, and social issues. Not for the faint of heart. Also, do not post while drunk, suffering from food poisoning, or while on a low carb diet. You have been warned."

    Discuss.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Not a bad idea, though I'm not sure if a different area is necessary. I sort of figure the one we have now is where we talk about all sorts of random things.

    I find it very important that we learn/practice talking to one another about things we feel passionately about without doing violence to each other. (Not just physical, forums can get down right hurtful.) In general we tend to decide that if something might cause difference of opinion the only option is to ban its presence. Hence those oft repeated jokes about "don't talk about politics or religion." Unfortunately that leaves us utterly unprepared to talk about anything that arises great passion in others in a civilized manner. A humanist and an Episcopal priest (or Buddhist monk, or Imam, or Rabbi, etc) should know how to discuss our different ideas while treating one another with respect. The way we treat each other in daily life translates to national and international conversation. So perhaps some civilized pen people can change our rancorous culture just a tiny bit with our careful conversation of big stuff!

    (This is why I do very little on twitter, I am not brief.)
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    Senior Member Manny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Dear Admin(s):
    Discuss.
    I second your commotion!

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    Senior Member Titivillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Life is easier if you realize that other people have different opinions than you and trying to force yours on someone else is a work of futility. The semi-anonymous internet makes it easier for people to try the latter than if you were in the same room with another person.

    Live and let live.
    Be Here Now

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I think it's a good idea because it will ensnare fewer people accidentally. I used to engage in a lot of internet debate on issues of religion, and that recent thread reminded me of why I stopped doing that.
    --
    Mike

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Great idea, Jon.

    I understand that some enjoy conversations about politics and religion with people on the internet. However, those folks might please understand that other people really don't. Talking about politics or religion is not the same type of off-topic discussion as music or movies.

    Putting it in a separate sub-forum seems like a great way to handle it. Everyone who enjoys that stuff, or is curious, can read it. And others can just enjoy talking about pens and inks.

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    Senior Member Lady Onogaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    On "All About Romance" that thread is called "The Wild West" and it is described as the place where everything and anything is allowed to be discussed.
    Lady Onogaro

    "Be yourself--everybody else is already taken." --Oscar Wilde

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    Member Mortiana27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I thought that this was exactly what the "Off Topic" section of the forum was created to do. To share whatever else tickles our fancy (outside of the obvious FP, paper, penmanship, etc), and as with all other threads ... if others are interested in reading and commenting ... conversation begins. Why do we tend to forget there is a back button that can be clicked when faced with a topic that is not tickling our fancy?

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortiana27 View Post
    I thought that this was exactly what the "Off Topic" section of the forum was created to do. To share whatever else tickles our fancy (outside of the obvious FP, paper, penmanship, etc), and as with all other threads ... if others are interested in reading and commenting ... conversation begins. Why do we tend to forget there is a back button that can be clicked when faced with a topic that is not tickling our fancy?
    Sure, I completely understand that sentiment. What I've found, over about 2 decades of participating in, as well as administering and moderating forums, is that it is helpful to actually have a sub-area where topics of a more delicate nature can be handled in full blaze.

    The Lounge certainly is a perfect place for most anything, but when two topics bump up against each other as you scroll a list, say... Show Us Your Spring Flowers! and Catholic Apologists Deny Atrocities, I have found that there is a significant number of people who actually say "I would prefer to not even see this topic". And I think "Who am I to say that it is wrong for them to feel that way? Is it really my place to tell them to simply scroll on past that?"

    I am, and will continue to be, perfectly happy however people want to deal with this. We're lucky: we're allowed open dialogue here. The measure of the quality of our community is how well we deal with that freedom, even if it means just opening a dialogue about strategies that eventually don't go anywhere.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I believe this forum suggestion has a place and purpose. Politics and Religion and other Social Issues were often discussed by handwritten letters or by modern printed press and now by blog and digital fora.

    Some amazing people use fountain pens and respectful disagreements or collaboration lead to enlightened exchanges.
    Mags or Rob Maguire MB 149, 147, 146,144, Mozart, Boehme, Sailor Realo, Aurora Optima, Churchmen Prescriptor and Parson's Essential, Parker 51 1.3 mm stub, Parker Vacumatic 1939 OB Can, TWSBI's (540,580, Mini and Vac 700), Pelikan M 1000/800 Demonstrator 600/200 demoM/200 OBB, Visconti Rembrandts (2), Lamy, Cross, Watermans, Pilots, Sheaffer's, Omas 360 LE 84/360, GvFC, Esterbrooks J and SJ, Bexley Jitterbug, Taccia, Eversharp 1952 flex, Edison Herald, Franklin Christoph Piper.

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    Senior Member VertOlive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I thought that the "Lounge" area of the forum was for exactly this and am still not sure why we'd need another special section. If it's not pen-related, it goes in the Lounge. If you don't like looking at other people's dogs or reading whatever personal musings they post, you needn't. So I gues I'm comfortable with the "Scroll Past This" approach and would do just that if I saw something that I didn't care to read about--I don't think people need to be "protected" to that extent.

    That said, I'm easy whatever needs to be done, if anything. I'm a generally affable Pen Geek and usually pop in on every discussion this notably intelligent group cares to ponder, and always take something of worth from it.
    "Nolo esse salus sine vobis ...” —St. Augustine

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    How about this--users who visit a "PRS" type sub-forum know EXACTLY what they're stepping into.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    How about this--users who visit a "PRS" type sub-forum know EXACTLY what they're stepping into.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Yes waiter, I will have another glass of ice water. I'm going to stick around and watch.

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    Senior Member gweddig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Yes waiter, I will have another glass of ice water. I'm going to stick around and watch.
    You may need something stronger.

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    The Lounge certainly is a perfect place for most anything, but when two topics bump up against each other as you scroll a list, say... Show Us Your Spring Flowers! and Catholic Apologists Deny Atrocities, I have found that there is a significant number of people who actually say "I would prefer to not even see this topic". And I think "Who am I to say that it is wrong for them to feel that way? Is it really my place to tell them to simply scroll on past that?"
    I can appreciate the desire to do something like this, and it's ultimately not going to affect my forum usage in any way. I'm okay with it either way

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I also have an imaginary friend can I also have a sub forum

    Remember just because there is no proof my Imaginary friend does not exist does not mean he does not

    Personally I do not think this forum is the right place for a Religious forum, given that 99% of the worlds evil has a religious background to it.

    Yes everyone is entitled to their own views on religion (me included) but no one has the right to ram it down the throats of those who choose to have a life unencumbered by the outdated teachings of Religion, In the educated modern world more people chose an educated view on this matter than choose the ancient outdated religious view.

    NO RELIGION or POLITICS Please

    Don't ruin a perfectly good form just to appease a minority

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    Senior Member Manny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    I also have an imaginary friend can I also have a sub forum

    Remember just because there is no proof my Imaginary friend does not exist does not mean he does not

    Personally I do not think this forum is the right place for a Religious forum, given that 99% of the worlds evil has a religious background to it.

    Yes everyone is entitled to their own views on religion (me included) but no one has the right to ram it down the throats of those who choose to have a life unencumbered by the outdated teachings of Religion, In the educated modern world more people chose an educated view on this matter than choose the ancient outdated religious view.

    NO RELIGION or POLITICS Please

    Don't ruin a perfectly good form just to appease a minority
    Judging from the responces to this thread, it appears that YOU are THE minority right now.
    Last edited by Manny; March 13th, 2014 at 04:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Manny View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    I also have an imaginary friend can I also have a sub forum

    Remember just because there is no proof my Imaginary friend does not exist does not mean he does not

    Personally I do not think this forum is the right place for a Religious forum, given that 99% of the worlds evil has a religious background to it.

    Yes everyone is entitled to their own views on religion (me included) but no one has the right to ram it down the throats of those who choose to have a life unencumbered by the outdated teachings of Religion, In the educated modern world more people chose an educated view on this matter than choose the ancient outdated religious view.

    NO RELIGION or POLITICS Please

    Don't ruin a perfectly good form just to appease a minority
    Judging from the responces to this thread, I believe that YOU are THE minority right now.
    A minority of one in a friendly forum disenfranchises someone who joined because he/she loves pens and may very legitimately not want to be distracted by conversations on subjects that person finds problematic. Folks this thread already proves the risks of going down this road. Can't people take their other interests other places?
    To continue to diminish the place of the handwritten in our lives is to diminish, in a small but real way, our humanity. Philip Hensher

    Dunno ergo sum

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    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a new sub-forum: PRS

    I say, let 'er rip.

    One facet of being human is negotiating all the differences we bring to the interaction.

    You know, if you don't want to play, you don't have to.

    I would rather open a thread, see the subject, blanch and dry heave or roll my eyes on this side of the screen, then close the window and move on than deprive others of the opportunity to discuss the subjects they're most interested in. And I would like the same opportunity. I mean, I like pens, but I don't restrict my discussion to only pens. I like a variety, and I find pen people to be usually very civil in discourse.

    I don't have any imaginary friends. I wish I had a dozen of them, as Robert Webb did when he was a young boy (can't remember in which episode of Would I Lie to You? this information was revealed). But I appreciate discussions that reveal how people struggle with finding meaning or how they came to understand their faith or lack of faith. Some put more stock in religion than others, but it's the same struggle.

    As for politics, I would love to see thoughtful political discussion (as opposed to reactionary blurb-winging - although I wouldn't ban the latter, but it would tell me more about the person winging blurbs rather than offering well-reasoned arguments, and that will be unavoidable). Maybe (American) politics is in such a shambles cos we've been admonished for years not to discuss it, and now we don't know how to talk about it without yelling and looking stupid to each other.

    All we have to do in discussion is to give the respect to others' opinions that we want for ours. This doesn't mean agreement. If you have to, you could think, "I respect his right to sound like an uninformed jerkbag," snigger to yourself, and move on. You don't have to say it. That's what I mean about respect vis-à-vis volatile subjects, such as, "Which do you prefer, clipless pens or pens with clips?" Oh, the hard positions some hold on this matter! (That one's on fpn - and not locked!)

    My opinion on this sub-forum idea is that I'd rather not, as such a move would indicate that we are unruly and unable to control ourselves. But if a separate sub-forum is what people want to protect themselves from accidentally espying a topic they'd prefer to avoid, well... okay. Either way, I'm likely to take a look at the topics, so separate-sub-forum, not-separate-sub-forum, machts nichts.

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