Newbie and question

[changabanga]

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum and fountain pens in general. I recently picked up a TWSBI 580 with EF nib and have started learning to use it. I had previously been generally using Pilot Hi Tec C gel pens for my everyday work as a lawyer, and I figured it was time to step up my pen game so that I could pull out a more substantial writing instrument in client meetings and for signing important documents.

After a bit of research I settled on the TWSBI 580 because it was affordable, looked great, and was from Taiwan, where I was originally from.

So far I've enjoyed it, but I feel like I'm still getting to learn how to write with a fountain pen. It still feels a bit unnatural when compared to writing with my Hi Tec C, but maybe I'm just getting used to the different grip and pressure needed to write with a fountain pen. My biggest issue though, is that my 580 just doesn't feel as smooth as the gel pen, and feels a lot scratchier too. I don't know if this is a function of the EF nib, the paper I'm using, the ink, my writing style, or likely all of the above, but I figure I'd come here to see if people had tips or advice on what I should expect as a brand new fountain pen user, and what I can do to make the experience even better.

Thanks everyone, and looking forward to getting more into this!

Dave

[changabanga]

And here's a picture of my lovely new pen!

[mhosea]

My biggest issue though, is that my 580 just doesn't feel as smooth as the gel pen, and feels a lot scratchier too. I don't know if this is a function of the EF nib, the paper I'm using, the ink, my writing style, or likely all of the above, but I figure I'd come here to see if people had tips or advice on what I should expect as a brand new fountain pen user, and what I can do to make the experience even better.

Welcome to FPG.

Yes, all of the above can be factors. All other things being equal, an EF nib will not feel as smooth as a wider nib unless you are writing with no pressure at all, which is quite difficult to maintain. While one should always maintain a "light hand", the finer the nib, the more it will seem scratchy with pressure, at least on sideways strokes. Another factor is that some nibs are tuned pretty well for a "classical" writing style. They aren't teaching penmanship in school anymore, but I do remember from my school days being taught not to use the fingers and wrist so much as the whole arm when writing. While other sorts of pens tend to be very forgiving of the angle that the pen makes with the paper, fountain pens are not, so if the nib gets rotated a bit or is used at a steep angle, the nib can start feeling toothy. Now, I don't write the "proper" way, myself, but the point is that out-of-the-box, pens may or may not be tuned to allow for wide variations in writing angles that you get when "finger writing".

Paper is one part of the 3-part FP equation: pen, paper, ink. Obviously a relatively sharp nib and textured paper is going to deliver more texture than a broad nib with textured paper, or a fine nib with smooth paper, etc.

Finally, it is sad but true that manufacturers do not always tune the pens they make very well before they go out the door. It's why some dealers who are skilled at nib adjustment offer to take your pen out of the box and tune it before sending it to you so that when you receive it, you know that it is as good as it is supposed to be. Even then, if you are new to fountain pens, you may write with too much pressure in the beginning and throw the nib a little out of adjustment. You may need to "rebalance the tines", just a fancy way of saying that the two halves of the nib tip need to line up evenly on the plane where the tipping touches the paper. To see this, you need a magnifier and hold the pen at an approximate 45 degree angle as you look across the tipping of the nib. Here's a brief discussion of it. For now, ignore the later parts about "smoothing" and just focus on the first part having to do with the tines being "balanced".

http://www.nibs.com/Article6.html

There are several people scattered around who are trained to do a complete smoothing and tuning of fountain pen nibs. This usually costs between $25 to $35 or so, depending on who is doing the work. Ultimately, fountain pens feel different than gel pens. If you want to beat a good gel pen for smoothness, you can do it, but it may require a well-tuned nib, a smooth-writing (lubricious) ink, and smooth, fountain-pen-friendly paper.

[Jeph]

mhosea covered things pretty well. I have the 580 in EF and it is very smooth. I write with my hand and not my arm but I use almost no pressure and very close to the classic tripod hold with the pen at near a 45 deg angle. I mostly use Diamine inks, but having tried different inks I can say that while they do feel different, it is not going to cause or cure a scratchy nib. Ink can make it better or worse but that is all. Pressure, tine alignment and angle of incidence all play a factor and I have listed them in what I perceive to be descending order of importance.

[Toulouse]

Welcome to the forum. Good advice from all. There is a learning curve, but you'll find that it starts to feel "right" pretty quickly. Keep us posted.

[writingrav]

Welcome to the madness. Mhosea pretty much said it all, Try a medium or broad nib (you can purchase Twsbi nibs separately to switch out). Also keep in mind that often more expensive brand pens, Pelikan for example, will come with smoother feeling nibs. Indulge!

[caribbean_skye]

welcome, welcome

[85AKbN]

[VertOlive]

Welcome to you! One of my first pens is the TWSBI Mini and I still love it. Enjoy.

[cwent2]

to the forum, and to the obsessio..... er Hobby.

[changabanga]

Wow, thanks for all the tips and welcomes everyone! Much appreciated. I keep reading the the FP community is ridiculously friendly, and I guess it's true!

I'll head home today to check out my nib with my loupe. I also plan to visit my local pen shop this weekend to see if they can give me some in person tips, as well as try different inks and paper to see if that'll make a difference.

Looking forward to learning more and fine tuning my pen to my liking!

Thanks again, everyone! And thanks mhosea for the detailed response! Much appreciated!

[Frank]

Welcome!!

Frank

[changabanga]

I actually noticed this morning too that there appears to be ink in the grip section of the pen, which I'm guessing means there's a leak in the feed. Could that also affect how smooth the writing is? I've attached a picture.

[mhosea]

I don't suspect anything wrong with the pen here. There was a thread in the repair section not long ago complaining about it in Sailor demonstrators, for example. Ink can get drawn into gaps and then spread by capillary action. I mean, you did dip that end of the pen in an ink bottle to fill it, right? Sometimes it's just better not to be able to see everything that's going on in a pen. Full-on demonstrators like this are not really my thing for this reason. I prefer at least an opaque grip section. I like things neat, but I'm OK with being fat, dumb, and happy in some matters.

[changabanga]

I did dip it, but the ink is actually coming out and inking up my fingers too when I write. Maybe I'm holding the pen too close to the nib, but just touching the black ring gets ink on my hands, which seems to me too leaky. Plus, it's only happening in one part of the ring.

I actually contacted TWSBI and they said they will send me a new feed to see if that fixes the problem. Hope it does!

[changabanga]

I also notice a little bit of condensation inside the grip section too. Doesn't affect the pen functionality, I suspect, but kinda bothers me.

Mhosea, you're right, I think if I get another demonstrator, I'll get one with opaque grip.

[Jeph]

I actually noticed this morning too that there appears to be ink in the grip section of the pen, which I'm guessing means there's a leak in the feed. Could that also affect how smooth the writing is? I've attached a picture.

I get the same ink in the section and that is not an issue. Ink on your fingers, however, is something else. What my evilbayjäger tained eyes are showing me is a crack in the section. I doctored your picture to show what I think that I see. A crack there would casue ink on your fingers as well as skipping and hard starting. I hope that I am wrong but please check that very carefully.

TWSBI Crack.jpg

[mhosea]

I'm handicapped here by not having one of these pens. Is that metal flange at the end of the grip section just friction-fit into to the plastic section on the 580 nib unit?

Maybe I'm holding the pen too close to the nib, but just touching the black ring gets ink on my hands, which seems to me too leaky.

A fountain pen is an intentional ink leak, controlled by air pressure and gravity. If you're talking about the black ring at the end of the nib end of the section, then I'd say it would be normal for ink to be present there. Anywhere a joint that isn't sealed completely is immersed in ink when the pen is filled, expect ink to wick in and still be there after you wipe the grip section off. You can try to wick as much out as possible after filling by holding a paper towel over the joint, but note that if there is a liquid connection between ink in that gap and ink in the feed, ink will be drawn from the feed and into the gap to replace it. This will be pretty obvious when it happens due to copious flow of ink into the paper towel and a mounting sense of futility when trying to wipe the ink off.

[changabanga]

Mhosea, yup, it's just a friction for. I don't think there ink there is coming from when I dip the nib to fill, but is coming out of the feed and then leaking out into my hands.

Jeph, I took a closer look at the clear grip section and I don't see a crack. What you see is probably from the reflection in the picture. I think, though, there must be a crack or leak in the feed that is both leaking ink on the inside of the grip (as seen in the picture) and the outside of the grip (as my fingers can attest).

Thanks for trying to troubleshoot this with me, guys, it's been really helpful. I'll take it into the shop tomorrow and see what they have to say and keep you posted! Really appreciate the help.

[tandaina]

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum and fountain pens in general. I recently picked up a TWSBI 580 with EF nib and have started learning to use it. I had previously been generally using Pilot Hi Tec C gel pens for my everyday work as a lawyer, and I figured it was time to step up my pen game so that I could pull out a more substantial writing instrument in client meetings and for signing important documents.

After a bit of research I settled on the TWSBI 580 because it was affordable, looked great, and was from Taiwan, where I was originally from.

So far I've enjoyed it, but I feel like I'm still getting to learn how to write with a fountain pen. It still feels a bit unnatural when compared to writing with my Hi Tec C, but maybe I'm just getting used to the different grip and pressure needed to write with a fountain pen. My biggest issue though, is that my 580 just doesn't feel as smooth as the gel pen, and feels a lot scratchier too. I don't know if this is a function of the EF nib, the paper I'm using, the ink, my writing style, or likely all of the above, but I figure I'd come here to see if people had tips or advice on what I should expect as a brand new fountain pen user, and what I can do to make the experience even better.

Thanks everyone, and looking forward to getting more into this!

Dave

When you say "pressure required" do you mean "the fact that no pressure is required?" because if a fountain pen is working correctly it should require no pressure to write. The nib literally floats across the page on a puddle of ink. Now your EF nib makes a very small puddle of ink, so you may feel the nib through it and if the tines aren't aligned it'll scratch (and an ef may scratch even if perfectly aligned, I do not use EF nibs for partly this reason).

Paper is also a factor, some paper has more feedback (scratch) than others. TWSBI nib units screw out and so can be swapped. I'd get an M nib, or even go crazy with a B and see if that is smoother for you, it may be easier to learn with.