Rhodia R vs. Tomoe River paper

[mtnbiker62]

After a few months of learning about fountain pens, inks and paper, I finally decided to make the jump into some "premium" papers. I purchased some Rhodia R #16 lined pads and some correspondence size Tomoe River pads from Jay at Paperforfountainpens.com. My favorite letter writing pen is a Jinhao X750 with a 0.7mm cursive italic nib. I wrote 2 letters, one on each paper, with this pen and Noodler's Nightshade ink. The writing experience on both papers was fantastic. They were both smooth and performed really well. I did notice that the ink dry time on the Tomoe River was extremely long...as in it never dried. I wrote a page, then went to dinner with my wife. When I returned an hour and a half later, it was still wet in a lot of places. I blotted with a tissue the best I could, but there were still wet places after 2.5 hours. I live in Utah, so I don't believe that ambient humidity is an issue. I'm sure that the Noodler's ink is a problematic one, being so saturated and all, so I'm going to reserve judgment until I've tried other pen and ink combinations. I'm sure that I could dilute the Nightshade ink, and that would help the dry time, but it would also change the color, which is a deal breaker for me. As for right now, though, with my preferred pen/ink combination, the Rhodia R paper is the winner for me.

[DrChumley]

I think you're right in that it may be the ink that was the problem. I've used dozens on inks on Tomoe River (including several Noodlers) and I've never seen that behavior. I have noticed the slightly longer dry times too, though.

For me, the sheen that one gets on Tomoe River paper is just so wonderful that it edges out Rhodia R for me by a hair, especially for International correspondence. I've not thought of doing a side-by-side test, though.

Thanks for the post!

[mhosea]

I have not tried Nightshade, but I've seen an ink do this sometimes and not others. Fresh from the bottle it dries in a normal amount of time, but days/weeks later, from the same pen the dry time gets longer. Eventually it reaches a state where you can write with it but it never dries on non-absorbent paper. My theory is that this has something to do with evaporation, but I really don't know. Generally, when I see dry times starting to creep up, I add some water to the ink in the pen (and to the ink in the feed).

[Lady Onogaro]

I use the Tomoe River paper, too (from Jay as well); I haven't had the problem of ink not drying, but I have not used Noodler's Nightshade either, so I am also thinking that it might be the ink. I've used both Diamine and Private Reserve on the Tomoe paper with no problems.

Note to Matt: Maybe try that side by side comparison in a review?

[mtnbiker62]

I have some pens inked with Sailor Kobe Nagasawa #39 and MontBlanc Leonardo Chalk Red, so those will be the next inks I try. I'm going to repeat the test: one letter on the Rhodia R paper and one on the Tomoe River paper. Both of those inks are quite a bit drier than the Nightshade, so we'll see what happens.

[mtnbiker62]

I have not tried Nightshade, but I've seen an ink do this sometimes and not others. Fresh from the bottle it dries in a normal amount of time, but days/weeks later, from the same pen the dry time gets longer. Eventually it reaches a state where you can write with it but it never dries on non-absorbent paper. My theory is that this has something to do with evaporation, but I really don't know. Generally, when I see dry times starting to creep up, I add some water to the ink in the pen (and to the ink in the feed).

The ink has been in this pen for quite a while, but I finally did run it out last night, so maybe I'll try re-inking it with fresh ink and see what happens.

[tiffanyhenschel]

I've had issues with Nightshade drying, so if that is your ink of choice, it may be a deal breaker for you. The Rhodia R is great paper, too. I use both that and the Tomoe River.
For me, Tomoe River really is at its best with fine and xf nibs. Writing from those nibs that is merely ho hum on other papers is beautiful on the TR.

[mtnbiker62]

I've had issues with Nightshade drying, so if that is your ink of choice, it may be a deal breaker for you. The Rhodia R is great paper, too. I use both that and the Tomoe River.
For me, Tomoe River really is at its best with fine and xf nibs. Writing from those nibs that is merely ho hum on other papers is beautiful on the TR.

That's good to know. Usually I prefer EF and F nibs; its just when I'm trying to "fancy" up my letters that I use the italic nib.

[LagNut]

Does anyone have a theory on why adding water makes the ink dry? Maybe it allows transport into the paper?

Very counterintuitive to me...

[mtnbiker62]

My theory would be that it "thins" out the ink, makes it less saturated with dye per unit, and that allows it to dry more easily.

[mhosea]

Does anyone have a theory on why adding water makes the ink dry? Maybe it allows transport into the paper?

I don't know. Something like that, maybe, or maybe there is a liquid component that will dry if spread thin enough but not otherwise.

Consider this. I've been doing some experiments exposing latex sacs to certain Noodler's inks for more than a year. Several months ago, I added a "dryout" experiment where I put latex sac clippings in about 1 to 1.5ml of ink and left the vial uncapped. Then I check them a couple of months later. Something like Waterman Blue dries to a powder. Some of the standard Noodler's inks don't evaporate completely, or at least they haven't after months now. They reach a syrupy state and apparently stay that way.

[snedwos]

Dilutes the lubricant. Water isn't the "wettest" liquid out there. Nor is it even a "typical" liquid. Water is weird.

[LagNut]

I don't know. Something like that, maybe, or maybe there is a liquid component that will dry if spread thin enough but not otherwise.

Consider this. I've been doing some experiments exposing latex sacs to certain Noodler's inks for more than a year. Several months ago, I added a "dryout" experiment where I put latex sac clippings in about 1 to 1.5ml of ink and left the vial uncapped. Then I check them a couple of months later. Something like Waterman Blue dries to a powder. Some of the standard Noodler's inks don't evaporate completely, or at least they haven't after months now. They reach a syrupy state and apparently stay that way.

Very intriguing. something water miscible but won't evaporate. So it would have to bind with the paper. obviously it can't all evaporate, but the powder is what I'd expect not the goo.

This would explain the add water to make it dry quicker though..

Thanks, interesting information.
Mike

[LagNut]

Dilutes the lubricant. Water isn't the "wettest" liquid out there. Nor is it even a "typical" liquid. Water is weird.

It is strange. And some of those properties are crucial to life.

This is definitely is one of those areas where it acts non intuitively.

Thanks much,
Mike

[RayCornett]

I did some paper tests in which I fell in love with Tomoe River. Until then I thought it was hype. One of the pens I tested on it was my Jinhao 159 medium nib. I agree on the dry time. I didn't bother anymore drying time tests once it approached 9 minutes on Tomoe. All I can suggest is blotter paper.

[manoeuver]

Some Noodlers inks have behaved that way for me too (Apache Sunset in particular.) Freshly inked, it performs very well. Left in the pen for a couple weeks, things get icky.

When I use a Noodler's I'm not sure about, I just use the pen a lot to make sure the ink is fresh.

I concur that the Rhodia R and Tomoe papers are frigging fantastic.

[snedwos]

Is rhodia r basically the same paper that's in the webbie?

[AndyT]

Is rhodia r basically the same paper that's in the webbie?

I think so, it certainly looks that way.