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Thread: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    The pen world just isn't lucrative enough.
    Well, I'm going to be charitable and figure that it isn't just a pen-centric technique, but something applicable to other plastic rehabilitations. Seen in this light, there could be reason to believe that a certain amount of value and market share would be worth protecting. I don't know that is the case, but - as you say - it might be better to be quite a bit more circumspect in flying the flag of innovation.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  2. #22
    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    "Your intellectual property isn't worth anything so you should share it with us .... That's essentially what you just said. I also feel to see how he falls short of your definition of a reputable pen restorer"

    No, mmahany, that isn't what I said! A restorer's reputation is founded on several things: his or her skills, getting work done in a timely manner, keeping good contact and pricing fairly. A single technique won't do it. I cast no aspersions on the OP's reputation.

    "All you're doing is hindering people from making new posts…"

    Really? How does that work?

    "… And attacking someone that took the time to take pictures of a restoration to share with us."

    Not at all! I'm questioning the ethics of someone who is apparently just using the group for free advertising, rather than sharing knowledge as many of us do.

    "There is a word for this sort of thing on Internet forum… "trolls.""

    I'm no troll and my contributions in this and other pen discussion boards show that quite clearly. You seem to believe that anyone with an opinion different from your own is a troll.
    Regards,
    Deb
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post

    The Amazon example is horrible. That's not Amazon being smart or protecting their business, it is patent abuse. People had been photoing products on a white background from before Amazon existed. The fact that they got that patent just shows how deeply broken the American patent system is, and how totally unscrupulous Amazon is to take advantage of that fact. It certainly isn't an example I'd use if I wanted sympathy!

    Now, my Grandfather, who invented a golf club head patenting that? That's a small business example and honest use of patent. (Long expired, we don't make anything off it.)
    I agree that what Amazon did was patent abuse. I was not saying they did a good thing. I was saying look at what a company with money can do to effect companies with a lot less money. They know they have so much money no photographer/seller could afford to fight them should Amazon decide to take the person to court for patent infringement. I am not, nor do I ever, seek sympathy for anyone for any reason.
    All I meant was the technique used is unique and it is not one that any of you or anyone else has mentioned. My explanation simply meant that it is kept proprietary to avoid someone of an unscrupulous nature patenting it themselves. This is not my decision. I am simply stating fact. I am not at liberty to say with the technique is. It is not my place to do so. Yet I have people coming at me as though it is. There are not many jobs where it is ok to tell the general public proprietary information from your place of employment without getting fired. This is no different.

    My comment from a previous post still stands. I know for a fact, from doing pen restoration myself, that those you think are sharing every process they use on your pens, every thing they use, etc.......are most definitely not. I have seen some of them list step by step information on things and they are leaving things out even if it is a minor thing it can be something that if you skip it, you could mess up your own pen if you decide to do it according to their step by step method. Why won't I tell everyone what the missing steps are? Because many of them are proprietary and not up to me to divulge and just because some other business may do so does not make it ok for me to do so. All businesses have their private information.

    So, if you base who you send your pens to by if they tell you everything about how they fixed your pen then you may as well do your own because none of them are telling you everything like you believe they are.

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    Hawk (July 4th, 2014)

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post

    Not at all! I'm questioning the ethics of someone who is apparently just using the group for free advertising, rather than sharing knowledge as many of us do.
    Care to show me any advertisement on my part where I said anything resembling "this is a restoration I did. Send me your pens to restore". Mentioning who I work with as to why I can not tell the technique is not an advertisement.
    Last edited by RayCornett; July 3rd, 2014 at 02:32 AM.

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    Senior Member Deb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    If it isn't an advertisement, what is it?
    Regards,
    Deb
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  7. #26
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    If it isn't an advertisement, what is it?
    A photo of a pen I did a repair on. Many of us have posted images of pens we have done repairs on. I was just glad to see it come out so well so I posted a picture of the pen, in the forum where you post pen photos. The only reason any business name was mentioned was because I felt it should be known why I can not tell the technique which is because it is not my place to do so and if anyone has any serious issue with it to contact him. Shooting the messenger is no way to handle things.

  8. #27
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Most of the big pen restorers out there (I'm thinking say Ron Zorn) aren't using secret practices. We don't pay them for their trade secrets but for their depth of experience and expertise in those techniques. Me knowing a technique doesn't mean I would want to attempt it on a valuable pen! And by the same token in such a small tight community keeping secrets that could help the whole community seems just... petty. But it is obviously the choice of any craftsman. However, it does make me far less likely to use that craftsperson because I do see the pen community as just that, and will support those I see as supporting the community as a whole.

    The Amazon example is horrible. That's not Amazon being smart or protecting their business, it is patent abuse. People had been photoing products on a white background from before Amazon existed. The fact that they got that patent just shows how deeply broken the American patent system is, and how totally unscrupulous Amazon is to take advantage of that fact. It certainly isn't an example I'd use if I wanted sympathy!

    Now, my Grandfather, who invented a golf club head patenting that? That's a small business example and honest use of patent. (Long expired, we don't make anything off it.)

    If the Amazon thing is even true....
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by RayCornett View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deb View Post
    If it isn't an advertisement, what is it?
    A photo of a pen I did a repair on. Many of us have posted images of pens we have done repairs on. I was just glad to see it come out so well so I posted a picture of the pen, in the forum where you post pen photos. The only reason any business name was mentioned was because I felt it should be known why I can not tell the technique which is because it is not my place to do so and if anyone has any serious issue with it to contact him. Shooting the messenger is no way to handle things.
    I guess people's issues with the technique would be valid if you posted this in the Repair Forum.....again, great work!

  10. #29
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tandaina View Post
    Most of the big pen restorers out there (I'm thinking say Ron Zorn) aren't using secret practices. We don't pay them for their trade secrets but for their depth of experience and expertise in those techniques. Me knowing a technique doesn't mean I would want to attempt it on a valuable pen! And by the same token in such a small tight community keeping secrets that could help the whole community seems just... petty. But it is obviously the choice of any craftsman. However, it does make me far less likely to use that craftsperson because I do see the pen community as just that, and will support those I see as supporting the community as a whole.

    The Amazon example is horrible. That's not Amazon being smart or protecting their business, it is patent abuse. People had been photoing products on a white background from before Amazon existed. The fact that they got that patent just shows how deeply broken the American patent system is, and how totally unscrupulous Amazon is to take advantage of that fact. It certainly isn't an example I'd use if I wanted sympathy!

    Now, my Grandfather, who invented a golf club head patenting that? That's a small business example and honest use of patent. (Long expired, we don't make anything off it.)

    If the Amazon thing is even true....
    Oh it is true and various websites are already scolding people for product photography with white backgrounds and such just in case it was shot using their patented method. Facebook has done this to me and a couple others I know already because if they don't they, too, could get in trouble, for allowing their members to infringe on a patented method.

  11. #30
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by RayCornett View Post
    My comment from a previous post still stands. I know for a fact, from doing pen restoration myself, that those you think are sharing every process they use on your pens, every thing they use, etc.......are most definitely not. I have seen some of them list step by step information on things and they are leaving things out even if it is a minor thing it can be something that if you skip it, you could mess up your own pen if you decide to do it according to their step by step method. Why won't I tell everyone what the missing steps are? Because many of them are proprietary and not up to me to divulge and just because some other business may do so does not make it ok for me to do so. All businesses have their private information.

    So, if you base who you send your pens to by if they tell you everything about how they fixed your pen then you may as well do your own because none of them are telling you everything like you believe they are.
    Ray, I don't know you, I only know the posts you make on the forums. Our interaction has consisted of dialog, occasional suggestions and critiques, and at least one offer of assistance from me to you. So I have no idea what kind of person you are, and (essentially) no idea what kind of businessperson you are.

    I will say this, though, regarding the above quote: you certainly aren't doing yourself a favor, or the person you work with, by casting aspersions on other people in the business and attempting to deflect the focus away from your actions. You ought to, at some point, look at the manner with which you are interacting with the community from which you would most significantly derive clients. I, for one, do not like people speaking ill of others in their own niche.

    Sometimes, the less said, the better. You opened Pandora's Box by piquing interest, and here we are today.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Ray,
    I am an engineer and love to tinker starting as a child so your post interested me a lot. As much as I would like to know more about the technique(s), I respect the craftsmanship and not disclosing how the work was performed. The auto racing world is a tight knit, small community and they, for sure, keep their 'secrets' from others. I doubt that they spill their secrets even though they 'have a beer together' after the race. My thoughts....

  13. #32
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    To compare the microscopic niche of fountain pen repair to the world of multi-million dollar, competitive auto racing is a bit of a stretch.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    There are lower budget racers out there, the ones that have regular jobs that put food on the table and 'belly up to the bar afterwards'. I didn't make myself clear, I wasn't referring to NASCAR and the likes even though it applies.

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    Jon Szanto (July 4th, 2014)

  16. #34
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    Thanks, Hawk - scaling it down certainly is appropriate! I think a bigger distinction is still the concept of competition, especially rewarded competition. Sure, one can stretch the analogy to say that one is 'competing' for business that those special sauce items will cause you to 'win', but it still is a stretch.

    But worth considering.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    I'm sure neither viewpoint will switch too many readers from changing their opinion on the subject matter. The beauty of the discussion is to learn of other views, consider them and have friendly discussion. 'Agree to disagree' is always good. I see it quite a bit of the time on this forum site, that is why I keep coming back. I may lurk more than contribute because that is my nature. Also, the more time I spend on the forum, the more fountain pens I want; the limiting factor is lack of money. Oh well, I digress....

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Hawk For This Useful Post:

    Jon Szanto (July 4th, 2014)

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    I wasn't comparing the two industries at all(amazon vs FP) which everyone has seemed to misunderstand But we all have our opinions and reasons for things. I think I am done beating the dead horse, lol.

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    Default Re: 1950s Wearever Chewed Up Barrel Restoration

    I would think that anyone reputable in the business of restoring pens can remove bite marks from the barrel of a pen. I could understand the secrecy of your method if your business relied on other vendors using you solely for this secret. if not I would have to agree with others here that this post is nothing more than a free plug for the betterment of your business. Any FP hobbyist would have been proud to reveal their method.
    As far as the comparison to Amazon's patent of white box shooting, one should read up on what they were granted a patent to. They own a "Studio Arrangement" patent. Shoot a pic with one backlight, side light, & flash from front and you are not infringing on their patent. Hence the reason they have not trolled and brought any lawsuits against anyone.
    Last edited by serpent; July 13th, 2014 at 02:21 PM.

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