When discussing or identifying a dip pen, is it typically the case that the "holder" is part of the original package, or are these generally considered separate from the nib, which in this context I sometimes see called a pen as well?
Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
When discussing or identifying a dip pen, is it typically the case that the "holder" is part of the original package, or are these generally considered separate from the nib, which in this context I sometimes see called a pen as well?
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
I dont think either really is. You have the nib and the nib holder. Btw where in Tx are you?
WTB Sheaffer Balance oversized with a flex nib, semi flex, broad, or medium in carmine red or grey striated.
Wtb Sheaffer Pfm in black or blue with a medium or broad nib.
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
Austin.
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
I am in the Killeen area. Any good shops there. Taking my wife to a camera shop to take classes.
WTB Sheaffer Balance oversized with a flex nib, semi flex, broad, or medium in carmine red or grey striated.
Wtb Sheaffer Pfm in black or blue with a medium or broad nib.
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
"Pen" was the traditional term for a nib - hence the old jingle:
"They come as a boon and a blessing to men, The Pickwick, the Owl and the Waverley Pen."
The Pickwick, Owl and Waverley were all pen nibs manufactured by Macniven and Cameron.
Rgds
Cob
gbryal (June 30th, 2014), sharmon202 (July 6th, 2014)
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
The only one I know of is at the Barton Creek Mall, the Paradise Pen Co.. I haven't been there yet, but, it's a mall, so, I guess it's not going to be a quaint, unique experience. The only other lead I had was a stationery place that used to sell fountain pens but weren't selling enough so stopped stocking them.Originally Posted by tarheel1
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
In my experience, neither the nib nor the holder is the pen; only the combination is. Not unlike how cheese and bread are not a sandwich until assembled properly.
This might be idiosyncratic of me.
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
What Cob says. Any early material on the manufacturing will refer to the steel pen trade, and "nib" seemed to refer to the very tips, a term originally used by quill cutters. Thus:
"The first attempt at the construction of Permanent Pens, appears to have consisted in arming the nibs of Turkey-quill pens with metallic points or nibs. As the friction of the quill pen upon the paper, and the softening produced by the ink, are the causes which wear away the nibs of ordinary pens, it is obvious that metal is better calculated to withstand these two influences than quill".
That from an article dated 1838. There are innumerable examples of this usage, eg. the Brandauer Review Pen, the Myers Britannia Pen, the Perryan Pen, the Hinks, Wells & Co. Rifleman Pen and so forth. Here's a nice advert for a famous early innovation (note the final paragraph):
Mordan.jpg
Just when the term "nib" came to refer to the whole steel unit isn't clear, but quite possibly not until the 1900s. In America, penmen used to refer to "points". Clearly an inch and a half of steel isn't a great deal of use on its own, but the part which holds it is properly referred to as the holder, logically enough.
Cob (June 30th, 2014), disillusion (July 1st, 2014), gbryal (June 30th, 2014), Jeph (July 1st, 2014), reprieve (July 2nd, 2014)
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
A nice well-researched piece Andy, thanks
Cob
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
Thank you Cob. If you fancy a whole lot more on this, here are a couple of downloadable pdfs I made recently:
1838 Article on Steel Pens
1883 Article on Steel Pens
The first is from a 12 part series on writing paraphernalia ... drop me a line if you want links to the rest.
Cob (July 1st, 2014), discopig (July 2nd, 2014), Scrawler (July 1st, 2014), ThriveToScribe (July 1st, 2014)
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
Thank you very much; the history is a major part of the fascination for me. I shall read these and no doubt at all be in contact for the rest.
Best wishes
Cob
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
^^-This. If you look back on old adverts, or vintage dip nib boxes, you will see they are called "pens". In the case of a dip pen, the handle part is the "holder" and the nib is the "pen".
Cob (July 1st, 2014)
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
That is very interesting, I always enjoy reading old articles like this.
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
Andy: You need to clear some space in your PM box!
Rgds
Cob
Re: Dip Pen: Which part is the pen?
Sorry about that Cob, it's empty now.
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