All good sir.
All good sir.
Jon Szanto (July 23rd, 2014), Marsilius (July 22nd, 2014)
A while back I was getting threats and harrasments from one of the members and that went on for about a week or two, and I even started posting about it outside of the forums on facebook.
This other member was threatening my life and well-being and calling me stuff like a "Deaf MotherF..." (I happen to be deaf), and stuff like that on both FPN and Reddit.
Because of mentioning the issue on facebook and such in one of the fountain pen groups, with screenshots and all kind of stuff and sending multiple reports of threads made against me (course none of the mods ever acknowledged my messages til the very end), their general demeanor was scolding me as in how dare I try to tell them how to do their job and so forth.
I suspect the person harassing me may have been one of the mods with a separate account considering how easily it kept happening and their general angst against me when I reported my disgust and concern.
FPN does have a higher degree of traffic, but I find that if I post the same thread on FPN and on FPG, I am 20 times more likely to be attacked with criticism or egotistical rants, which early on I responded aggressively towards (perhaps too aggressively for the mods of those boards, especially considering I kept things blunt rather than some of the people who like to offend by being all smug).
I still have an account there, but I post far less frequently, and I won't ever be doing another PIF there (as I've already given away I think over 20 pens there so far), especially seeing how the moderator were treating members in general as if they're too good for their own supporters.
Austin_Malone (July 22nd, 2014), auto winder (July 24th, 2014), Bisquitlips (February 13th, 2022), Crazyorange (July 23rd, 2014), FayeV (July 28th, 2014), Flounder (July 23rd, 2014), nigh means near (August 7th, 2014), Sailor Kenshin (July 23rd, 2014)
Actually, I have watched stuff happen from the sidelines, and my impression is that it is very much like my Middle School was: unspoken rules and the in-folks decide what they are and to whom they apply. A lot of history. Not as much about payrolls as about how small closed societies tend to control things. My two cents. Lots of good info over there. Lots of good freedom here. Lots of nice people on both.
Austin, I like your care in not following the crowd, though the pull is strong.
I think specific examples of what happened are less important than getting to know and trust folks here and then starting to wonder why some of them have been banned or censored somewhere else.
Last edited by Marsilius; July 22nd, 2014 at 09:45 PM.
Fortibus es in ero
Austin_Malone (July 22nd, 2014), Jon Szanto (July 23rd, 2014)
Shortly after I joined FPN I committed a drive-by ad hom. It was in a somewhat heated debate, but that's no real excuse. I got a polite PM pointing it out. I apologised to all involved - even though it wasn't requested - and there the story ends. Other than that I have seen very little of the horror stories that people say goes on over there. In general I think it is a pretty sedate forum. Same as here really. On the other hand, I don't go out of my way to be contentious. YMMV.
Austin_Malone (July 22nd, 2014), mhguda (July 23rd, 2014), Waski_the_Squirrel (July 23rd, 2014)
Here is some history, for the curious.
Austin_Malone (July 22nd, 2014)
Despite all the history it still continues, this in the CS Forum is a classic of two mods making very little sense out of a rather simple situation AND avoiding answering any questions. Combine arrogance, ego and stupidity and you see it in the last post (surprising really).
But if you don't "rock the boat" there should be no problems, ask questions about obvious inconsistencies/actions etc and bye, bye...which is why it's a sterile, dull and boring place.
Regards
Hugh
Marsilius (July 23rd, 2014)
Disheartening. Glad to be spending time here.
Fortibus es in ero
There was a suspension just the other day while I was reading the ongoing debacle about the CS forum and the moderator MB.
As someone who has seen the way mods on FPN have their favoured people who can do no wrong, and their unfavoured, who can do no right, and having observed, in migo984's words arbitrary and unfair moderation, I'm glad to be out of there.
Some days, it's hardly worth chewing through the leather straps....
It's funny, I've always scratched my head in amazement at both FPN and here with just how rude and abrasive some folks can be when discussing our hobby of pens, ink, paper, etc. I have always attributed it to some folks are just caustic no matter what the topic. When the discussions began here about bannings from FPN I started watching the discussions there more closely. I have recently observed a couple of high volume posters in FPN treat others terribly without any apparent action by the mods. Just the other day, we all witnessed the very public suspension handed out.
I just wish everyone would take a deep breath and treat each other with respect, it's only pens people!
I remain on FPN due to their high volume and historical information. I have grown to really enjoy FPG and hope that it's volume can continue to grow.
raging.dragon (July 24th, 2014), Sailor Kenshin (July 23rd, 2014), top pen (July 23rd, 2014)
Some folks are obstreperous by nature or habit. But one person's rude is another's brusque or outspoken. And, even with emoticons, the internet makes it hard to judge tone of voice. I have seen humor or attempts at humor get quickly misinterpreted. What I appreciate here is that allowing folks to be themselves works out pretty well, and bad manners tend to fall into the background. When you try to control it too much, it starts growing in focus, just like a zit right before a first date. (That was a lame attempt at humor.)
Fortibus es in ero
I think you are right I mean as much as I like some pens and don't like others I won't start arguing because some one has different views. Moderation is a difficult thing to do fairly and I previously looked for and didn't find an explanation of what a moderator is allowed to do and an explanation of there privileges which I think would be useful to bring some transparency to the forum.
The Moderators who I've been in contact with have been fine however I imagine it is more to do with the forums you participate in.
I'm always amazed by the passion that something like a fountain pen can bring out in people as well as the startling attitudes that some have as regards their choice of favorite writing instrument. I always sit back from these comments thinking, "It's just a pen."
There will always be drama in anything that involves people.
I'm just happy that there are two active forums about an obsolete writing instrument like the fountain pen and I happily contribute to both.
Flounder (July 23rd, 2014), raging.dragon (July 24th, 2014)
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
Brisboy (July 23rd, 2014)
Actually <reaches for tin helmet> what amazes me is how often people complain about a private forum being non-democratic. If I set up an interest-forum, then I get to set the rules. And they can be as arbitrary as I care to make them. If people don't join, or leave because of the rules then pretty quickly I will have tumbleweeds blowing through my forum. FPN and FPG seem to have a fair amount of loyal supproters. So, by and large I would have to conclude that the majority of members are prepared to tolerate what goes on when measured against the perceived greater advantage of having a place to go to for discussions, information and so on.
nagod (July 26th, 2014), Newjelan (July 25th, 2014), raging.dragon (July 24th, 2014), Waski_the_Squirrel (July 23rd, 2014)
Essentially this is correct. There are some ethical issues though, you join a board with the expectation to be treated with a degree of respect (from the owners) and that board "rules" be fairly enforced if needed. There is also an expectation that information that is relevant to the topic/forum not be censored unless it is made clear by the board (ie a car site sponsored by, say, Ford Motor Co. is clearly going to be pro-Ford), this I term as a "duty of care" by the board to the users.
Apply this to the FPN CS Forum and the ethical failures of FPN become clear. The latest shows no respect for a member, unfairly treats him and denies him any reply while also failing to answer some rather simple questions to incorrect statements made by a moderator. The failure to allow decent discussion about QC/service/history issues ( the "new" CS likes people to think it's the same company as the original and this was always a touchy subject) with CS products does breach a duty of care to the user in that downplaying such known issues/facts a person may buy a product with a well known fault or deceived ( I heard it on many occasions that buyers didn't know the new CS was not the original company) that if the information was known he would have avoided. Of course the CS Forum was unique in that a part owner of the "new" CS (unrelated to the original btw, just the same name) moderated it with the predictable result it was pro CS and it's products featured heavily ,so much so it was more a marketing forum at one point, while at the same time consigning the original CS products to "also ran" status. The pinned topics with only one recently added one referring to the "true" CS. It's no wonder true CS lovers have been appalled at that particular forum as an insult to the brand and the mod as having a COI , which in practical terms of the brand she did have but not in a legal sense.
More relevant is that with better management and less ego driven incompetence from some (there are ,of course, some excellent people that moderate on FPN) it could be so much more.
Regards
Hugh
reprieve (July 23rd, 2014), Sailor Kenshin (July 23rd, 2014)
HughC, I understand what you mean regarding ethical issues, but that is still an imposed construct in the context of private forums.
Essentially my point is that the owner sets the rules. They can set them however they see fit. There is no ethical imperative apart from their own personally held standards. What a prospective member thinks of this is largely irrelevant - from a purely argument-based perspective - unless the owner is open to constructive criticism. Once again there is no imperative for this.
I realise that the above scenario is not ideal and often unpleasant, but it does represent the bare bones of the situation, in my opinion. I don't like it, and by and large most sensible forums do not run afoul of it too often. If they did there would be nobody in them! On the other hand there are a lot of forums with wildly different standards, and they are scary places indeeed.
As an example, I expect you to respond sensibly and politely to my discussion of these points. You, however, may feel that it is appropriate to take a different approach to what I expect. Who is right?
I do find it all interesting, but that is probably because, in the main, I do not get caught up in all the controversies myself, and I am smart enough to double-check most of the information I find if I feel it necessary to do so.
As I said, not an ideal scenario, but a real one.
best,
Cryptos
nagod (July 26th, 2014), Newjelan (July 25th, 2014), raging.dragon (July 24th, 2014)
Flounder (July 26th, 2014)
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