Strategies to dig up a really cheap Pilot Capless/VP

[Plume145]

Can you help me find some more please? I really want to give a VP a try. I used to think they were pretty gimmicky, but lately I’ve had to do a lot of notetaking on the fly and while picking my way around debris, and that’s when I started to really see the value in them lol.

Anyway, the problem is I really don’t have a lot of money to spend - certainly not what they cost full price. But I can’t seem to find one I can really afford, either - they’re all too expensive!

The cheapest I found is someone selling them for 60 euros on ebay, but after a bit of research it sounds like these are like a simplified version where the focus is on appearance more than perfect function, and that’s the other way round from what I’m after because I’m happy to compromise significantly on condition, particularly appearance.

Basically, it could be any color (even black although all things being equal, I’d rather any other color), any nib size, and most of all it could be beat-up six ways to sunday, scratched, dented, gouged, heck even chewed by a dog lol. As long as the working bits actually work - the nib writes, the tank holds ink, the clicky mechanism extends and retracts - I’m happy.

By contrast it sounds like the ebay cheapies have some issues like scratchy or skippy nibs and other things that would prevent me from actually using these the way I want. In any case, even 60 euros (or actually about 75 with the shipping) is still a bit steep for me I’m afraid!

So I would have thought I’d find at least a few options. But nothing! I posted a wanted ad on t’other site, and I did get two replies but it quickly became clear they didn’t take me seriously when I said I was after something REALLY CHEAP and was willing to take some pretty bad condition, because they showed me stuff that was still pretty shiny, albeit not perfect, and expected a price to match.

So, my question is, can you guys think of any other avenues to find something suitable? Where does one go to find a specific modern pen that works but whose cosmetic condition is awful enough that the price is slashed waaay down?

thanks and chocolate cookies in advance! Or rather a wonderful milk chocolate ice cream from the nearby ice cream shop, since it's summer :P

[top pen]

I saw that post on fpn. The thing I thought was the nib unit itself would be worth $40 in decent condition. The pens are available on Amazon from Japan for about £60 under the capless name. I'm tempted at £60 however I'm not a fan of the design.

Could you save up longer?

[Plume145]

Not really, it's not so much the price alone, it's that I can't justify it. More like I don't have that kind of money to spend on a pen at all, than I don't have it to spend on a pen right now - does that make sense? I'm already trying to save up for a ton of things that have to take priority, like replacing my laptop, which I've had for 7 years now and I've outgrown for about 3 :P

Which post on fpn did you mean? Mine was just a classified. I got a couple of responses, but the pens were in better condition than what I was after. One even had two nibs!

I think I found the ones you saw on Amazon - they're down to about 54 now but I think it's the same ones. They look like the ones you can get on ebay that I mentioned earlier, so that brings us back to square one when it comes to those issues they might have. Plus, I still can't pay 60.

I agree the design is kind of ugly! There is no way I'd pick this pen for looks, it just looks wonky to me lol. I'm only into it because I was thinking it would be nice to get the convenience of a clicky pen, but with the smooth, comfortable writing of a fountain pen for those times when you're taking notes on the fly, with a clipboard or whatever. By far most retractable pens are either gels or BPs, and both are kind of hard and prone to skidding around on the paper, it's awkward to use them if you are used to FPs or the occasional felt tip pen (which is what I use when a FP is out, like when I'm not writing on regular paper).

[KBeezie]

The lowest 'reasonable' price I've seen for a VP was typically around $90 USD (there was some mentions that that one on FPN had some 'issues'). IF that's not reasonable or justifiable for you (I think your mentions of £60 is roughly 100 USD?), then you may want to consider other pens. Due to the way the capless pens are designed they can get pretty expensive, and before the VP Came along they were typically above $250 and not quite as easy to retract (most seem like it was done thru a twisting mechanism which would also rotate the opening).

The Nib units alone cost around $60 USD (30-35 GBP?).

If capless is the only reason, I personally wouldn't fret too much about getting it. I don't own one, but it's my understanding that the clip placement and how the nip feels is uniquely different than most of Pilot's other pens. And as small as the nibs are, I would want to purchase from a reputable source, those are not nibs I'd feel comfortable trying to align and adjust myself. (Also the VP Nibs are 18K)

Edit: Noticed you were talking bout 60 Euros (not GBP) being too steep (meaning $80 USD being too steep)... you're very unlikely to get a VP any time soon if even 50-60 Euros is too steep.

[top pen]

Not really, it's not so much the price alone, it's that I can't justify it. More like I don't have that kind of money to spend on a pen at all, than I don't have it to spend on a pen right now - does that make sense? I'm already trying to save up for a ton of things that have to take priority, like replacing my laptop, which I've had for 7 years now and I've outgrown for about 3 :P

Which post on fpn did you mean? Mine was just a classified. I got a couple of responses, but the pens were in better condition than what I was after. One even had two nibs!

I think I found the ones you saw on Amazon - they're down to about 54 now but I think it's the same ones. They look like the ones you can get on ebay that I mentioned earlier, so that brings us back to square one when it comes to those issues they might have. Plus, I still can't pay 60.

I agree the design is kind of ugly! There is no way I'd pick this pen for looks, it just looks wonky to me lol. I'm only into it because I was thinking it would be nice to get the convenience of a clicky pen, but with the smooth, comfortable writing of a fountain pen for those times when you're taking notes on the fly, with a clipboard or whatever. By far most retractable pens are either gels or BPs, and both are kind of hard and prone to skidding around on the paper, it's awkward to use them if you are used to FPs or the occasional felt tip pen (which is what I use when a FP is out, like when I'm not writing on regular paper).

I hope you find one but I thinks it's going to be difficult and may take a while to pop up on.

However I'd setup both an Ebay alert for a used one and a camelcamelcamel Alert for amazon on wide range finishes with the hope a cheap new one may turn up.

[scrivelry]

I have a few Hero 616's that came to me from a variety of places, and at least one of those is pretty good about not drying out - very fine hooded nib there. Till you can locate a scratch and dent level VP, would you consider some slightly gutter arrangement like a 616 with a cap taped securely to the clipboard so you could just slip the pen in and out of it, or hanging from a string around your neck so the cap is still there when you pull the pen out of it, or...

Not the answer to your question, but I totally understand the concept of "I cannot afford to spend this on a pen because i need about one million things, some of them crucial... Maybe you could meet this need another way, just for now?

[Jon Szanto]

Here is something I find very helpful: each person has a different definition of cheap. I looked, and if I missed it, I am sorry - but could you put an actual dollar/euro figure down, as far as how much you are willing to pay? As long as I could be on the lookout for a pen, I really would rather not waste my time with sending back info and getting "Oh, but that is too expensive!"

So, to the OP: how much can you afford to spend? Put a figure on it - it will actually help you in a few ways.

[Plume145]

The lowest 'reasonable' price I've seen for a VP was typically around $90 USD (there was some mentions that that one on FPN had some 'issues'). IF that's not reasonable or justifiable for you (I think your mentions of £60 is roughly 100 USD?), then you may want to consider other pens. Due to the way the capless pens are designed they can get pretty expensive, and before the VP Came along they were typically above $250 and not quite as easy to retract (most seem like it was done thru a twisting mechanism which would also rotate the opening).

The Nib units alone cost around $60 USD (30-35 GBP?).

If capless is the only reason, I personally wouldn't fret too much about getting it. I don't own one, but it's my understanding that the clip placement and how the nip feels is uniquely different than most of Pilot's other pens. And as small as the nibs are, I would want to purchase from a reputable source, those are not nibs I'd feel comfortable trying to align and adjust myself. (Also the VP Nibs are 18K)

Edit: Noticed you were talking bout 60 Euros (not GBP) being too steep (meaning $80 USD being too steep)... you're very unlikely to get a VP any time soon if even 50-60 Euros is too steep.

The retractable element is pretty key, if I don't get that I have all my other pens, which I love and they work great for me in most situations. That's a big part of why I feel I can go with a pretty battered pen' I'm mostly in this for the novelty and for occasional use, so I can put up with the battered exterior and even a nib that is kind of blah. It should work, no tines pointing in opposite directions or ink not flowing down or anything catastrophic like that, but once you clear that minimum for me there's a vast gulf between 'meh, it works, but no more' and 'ir works well'. I'm generous with labeling something as the former, but a lot stingier with the latter. I repeat, for me: I know others have a more either/or approach, where the nib works well or is just not worth using, which is fair enough, just not the way I roll :-) In this case, though, the former would be just fine.

I hope you find one but I thinks it's going to be difficult and may take a while to pop up on.

However I'd setup both an Ebay alert for a used one and a camelcamelcamel Alert for amazon on wide range finishes with the hope a cheap new one may turn up.

oh yes, an ebay alert! Man, I'd totally forgotten those, thanks for reminding me *d'oh!*

I hadn't heard of camelcamelcamel at all, though, so thanks for that too! Do you happen to know whether you can set parameters for shipping costs as part of the search? I'm in Greece, so between an item priced $10 with $45 to ship and the same item from another seller priced $20 with $6 to ship, the latter ends up being cheaper even though comparing item prices alone suggests it's twice as expensive. If I could set for that in camelcamelcamel, that'd be great, but I can't figure that out unless I actually create an account, which I won't be able to use if I can't set the shipping parameters - vicious circle :P

I have a few Hero 616's that came to me from a variety of places, and at least one of those is pretty good about not drying out - very fine hooded nib there. Till you can locate a scratch and dent level VP, would you consider some slightly gutter arrangement like a 616 with a cap taped securely to the clipboard so you could just slip the pen in and out of it, or hanging from a string around your neck so the cap is still there when you pull the pen out of it, or...

Not the answer to your question, but I totally understand the concept of "I cannot afford to spend this on a pen because i need about one million things, some of them crucial... Maybe you could meet this need another way, just for now?

No, actually it's a great idea! I'm way into DIY solutions and out-of-the-box work-arounds to problems, so this is perfect. Yeah, it's not a retractable pen, but it will do what a retractable pen does without the cost (I'm going to use one of my existing cheapo pens, and maybe some sugru...maybe on a dollar store bracelet instead of a neck cord or the clipboard? hmmm, you've given me a whole bunch of ideas here!)

And it's nice to see someone gets the 'too broke for this' feeling, lol. Sometimes it feels like there's not a lot of space in the pen community for anyone who's not able to drop $200+ on a pen multiple times a year.

Here is something I find very helpful: each person has a different definition of cheap. I looked, and if I missed it, I am sorry - but could you put an actual dollar/euro figure down, as far as how much you are willing to pay? As long as I could be on the lookout for a pen, I really would rather not waste my time with sending back info and getting "Oh, but that is too expensive!"

So, to the OP: how much can you afford to spend? Put a figure on it - it will actually help you in a few ways.

I can't name an expected or average price, only an ideal price and a maximum price. The maximum price is determined by the ones I found on ebay, which go for €73.50. Obviously, I'm not willing to pay more than that for a used pen, because if I can pay that much and get it new, there's no point. So if a used pen is priced up to €10 less than that, I'm not interested unless *maybe* it's massively better.

The ideal price, obviously, would be free. Like when I found a battered Safari on a classroom floor and nobody recognized it, so I ended up keeping it. Or so deeply discounted relative to RRP that it's as good as free, like when I found a mini Delta Dolcevita at an outdoor market priced at €20. That kind of thing.

In the ad I'd posted I'd split the difference and set a nominal price of about $40. As long as shipping does not shoot up above $35 I can pay that. BUT, if a seller can ship for less than that (and I'm willing to help them figure out how if they've never done so before, eg research it etc), then they get to keep the difference. So if you can ship for ten bucks, you will get $65 for the pen. That kind of deal. Which is not TOO horrible for that awful puke green pen rolling around somebody's drawer since their puppy chewed it, y'know? Because that's the kind of pen I'm after here

[Lady Onogaro]

Have you tried engeika.com for a VP? I don't think you will find a new or used one at $40.00, but you can get one for about $85.00 there.

[Jon Szanto]

Good luck. If you can't simply say how much you are willing to pay, I can't suggest a strategy. You are making it a whole lot more complicated than it needs to be.

[top pen]

[/QUOTE]
I hadn't heard of camelcamelcamel at all, though, so thanks for that too! Do you happen to know whether you can set parameters for shipping costs as part of the search? I'm in Greece, so between an item priced $10 with $45 to ship and the same item from another seller priced $20 with $6 to ship, the latter ends up being cheaper even though comparing item prices alone suggests it's twice as expensive. If I could set for that in camelcamelcamel, that'd be great, but I can't figure that out unless I actually create an account, which I won't be able to use if I can't set the shipping parameters - vicious circle :P
[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can unfortunately include shipping prices in it. It's more a long term strategy, I've got a longer short list of pens and inks I'm interested in however only at a certain price. Hopefully there maybe a price drop by Christmas on one of the nicer pens.

[velo]

Just wait a bit more and save up. Then you can get what you want.

The VP is a very popular pen and it'd be hard work getting a cheaper one that works.

[reprieve]

I'm still not quite sure how much you're willing to pay, but there's a mustard VP for sale here on the board for $70.

[fountainpenkid]

If you are looking for one of these pens for under $50, I don't think you will have much luck, not because it would never be reasonable to sell one at that price point, but because the owner of such a damaged pen isn't likely to consider the pen worth selling(they would only get about a quarter of its original value back)--also by the point it is in that sort of condition, it might have some sort of sentimental value to them, thus another reason they would just keep it with them.

[manoeuver]

Ask for one for a Birthday of other type gift. Or borrow one from a fellow geek with an extra.

[Plume145]

Have you tried engeika.com for a VP? I don't think you will find a new or used one at $40.00, but you can get one for about $85.00 there.

Thanks, I'll bear it in mind! $85 is still quite a bit more than what I could pay, but it's also a nice discount from the usual RRP so it's definitely good to know.

I hadn't heard of camelcamelcamel at all, though, so thanks for that too! Do you happen to know whether you can set parameters for shipping costs as part of the search? I'm in Greece, so between an item priced $10 with $45 to ship and the same item from another seller priced $20 with $6 to ship, the latter ends up being cheaper even though comparing item prices alone suggests it's twice as expensive. If I could set for that in camelcamelcamel, that'd be great, but I can't figure that out unless I actually create an account, which I won't be able to use if I can't set the shipping parameters - vicious circle :P

I don't think you can unfortunately include shipping prices in it. It's more a long term strategy, I've got a longer short list of pens and inks I'm interested in however only at a certain price. Hopefully there maybe a price drop by Christmas on one of the nicer pens.

Got it, that makes sense now. Long-term strategies are good too. I don't need it tomorrow or anything; obviously sooner is better (especially since it's already dragged on a few months) but I can stalk it if I have to :P

Just wait a bit more and save up. Then you can get what you want.

The VP is a very popular pen and it'd be hard work getting a cheaper one that works.

I'll consider that, although I have a huge list of stuff I need to save up for. I have pretty limited means, and a lot of different interests. They tell you having a variety of interests enriches a person, but I guess they didn't mean that literally! lol

I'm still not quite sure how much you're willing to pay, but there's a mustard VP for sale here on the board for $70.

Short answer, $40, more if shipping doesn't cost as much as a new safari or something, but up to $80 because only a little bit more gets you one brand new off ebay, your choice of color and nib.

The one on the ad looks lovely, and the color and nib are something I'd go for if I had the choice - big plus. But it's still more than I can afford to pay on a thing like that right now. Plus with only one scratch I can barely see, it's way better than the hunk o' junk I'm looking for :-)

If you are looking for one of these pens for under $50, I don't think you will have much luck, not because it would never be reasonable to sell one at that price point, but because the owner of such a damaged pen isn't likely to consider the pen worth selling(they would only get about a quarter of its original value back)--also by the point it is in that sort of condition, it might have some sort of sentimental value to them, thus another reason they would just keep it with them.

That did occur to me actually, because I haven't seen many pens in bad shape being offered for sale. That's why this time around - my second serious effort to dig up one of these - I decided to start a thread instead of just another Want ad. I thought it might kill two birds with one stone: some new ideas on where to look, plus the possibility someone with a crappy old pen might see this and think 'hey, this one wants my crappy old pen that Spot chewed up last year! oh, can only pay forty bucks, hmm...oh well, still better than the big fat nothing it's getting me sitting unused in my pen case!' You know?

Obviously, that wouldn't work for sentimental value pens, but I know from my own experience it's possible to have pens that stick around for years and end up in pretty crummy shape without getting particularly attached to them. And it's not that I'm exceptionally unsentimental, just your fair to middlin' :P

Ask for one for a Birthday of other type gift. Or borrow one from a fellow geek with an extra.

I don't actually have anyone I can ask to get me something like this. Noone in my extended circle has that kind of money to spend on a gift, at least noone close enough that I can just ask like that :-)

Borrowing one would be awesome because then I would know more about these. I've heard that some people can never get used to the clip, and this would be a sure-fire way to find out if I'm one of them. But I doubt anyone is going to lend their pen to someone who has stated explicitly she cannot afford to buy the pen new, as they wouldn't be able to count on a replacement in the event of an accident. I mean, I'm careful with my stuff and even more so with other people's, but there's some mishaps that no amount of care can prevent. I know I probably wouldn't in their shoes. I might let the person try out the pen in my presence where I can keep an eye on it, but not ship it halfway across the world.

Unless of course they buy a bunch of these every year and have like 3000 pens worth at least a couple hundred dollars each, in which case that would be like me lending out Preppies! hehe Here's hoping, right?

[manoeuver]

Tough Love Coming:

If you want to try a vp you are going to first have to believe that it's possible. As long as $150 remains an unattainable sum in your mind it will remain so in reality.

If you want more money, learn a skill and do some work. Anyone can. Making excuses is not a profitable skill so stop spending time on that.

Looks like your best bet is to keep your eyes down and hope somebody drops one. Good luck.

[Kaputnik]

Just a little more information, if you get one of the cheaper VPs from a Japanese eBay dealer, around $90 as others have mentioned above, it will most likely not come with one of the 18k gold nibs that they are sold with in the US; it will have an "alloy" (presumably a steel alloy) nib instead. It's still a genuine Pilot nib, and you might not be able to tell the difference when you write with it. Of course, you're still talking about shipping from Japan bringing the total price to over $100. But you simply aren't going to do any better with a new one. You can be very patient in waiting for a used one to show up, maybe go to yard sales and estate sales in addition to eBay and haunting the classifieds on pen forums, but it will be a matter of luck.

I have my own price levels for pen purchases, which I won't be more specific about here, but I'm sure we all do. I will say that the VP is within my limits; I even paid a little extra to get one from a dealer who tuned the 18k nib and removed the clip for me. There are pens, however, which I would never buy at their list prices, not necessarily because I don't have the money, but because I'd feel ridiculous paying that much. Maybe a real bargain on a used one could come my way, but my main strategy for dealing with this is just to accept that I'm not getting one.

[Jon Szanto]

$40 is way unrealistic. Once in a blue moon, in some kind of sumgai deal, it might happen by chance, but if a VP is what the OP wants, you've just got to be realistic and figure a higher budget. It isn't a cheap pen to begin with, and to expect to find one for such a low sum is... not highly likely. That's just how it is.