Page 1 of 31 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 601

Thread: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

  1. #1
    Senior Member D Armstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario. Canada
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 122 Times in 62 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    It is always nice when someone decides to share. And when the thing shared is pen information, it is beyond nice: it’s a public service.

    We were browsing through our favourite host of online information, the Internet Archive and came across the fruits of some generous soul’s labour: high quality scans of vintage fountain pen & pencil documents. Catalogues and service manuals for some of the biggest names in the pen business. These are all public domain items, some in full colour, and represent a very valuable collection.

    The importance of this information cannot be understated. We can often pinpoint the age of a pen by it’s appearance in a catalogue. Or, we may be able to determine exactly which pen would have gone with which desk base. We have discovered the exact length of the neck ribbons originally supplied by Waterman. The list goes on, and that’s just the catalogues!

    The real treasure is in the service manuals. Detailed breakdowns of pens. Step-by-step instructions as to repair methods. Illustrations of tools designed & provided by the manufacturers. This information is a lifeline for old pens.

    So our thanks goes out to the kind soul who, rather than hoarding this information—or choosing to profit by selling it—chose to enrich us all.

    The documents are posted to archive.org in groupings, which are not chronological and are named a bit oddly. We have decided to list them a little more intuitively on our website, making it much easier to locate what you are specifically looking for: http://www.restorersart.com/?p=1245
    David Armstrong
    --
    www.restorersart.com
    • Antiques for Readers & Writers •
    --
    www.sevanti-letterpress.com
    • Guaranteed Fountain Pen Friendly •

  2. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to D Armstrong For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked

    carlos.q (August 3rd, 2014), Cob (August 3rd, 2014), discopig (August 3rd, 2014), jacksterp (August 3rd, 2014), Jeph (August 3rd, 2014), Kaputnik (July 2nd, 2015), migo984 (August 3rd, 2014), orfew (August 8th, 2014), StacyBean (August 31st, 2014), Tsuki yo (August 3rd, 2014), Wile E Coyote (August 3rd, 2014), ypsilanti (August 3rd, 2014)

  3. #2
    Senior Member D Armstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario. Canada
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 122 Times in 62 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    It has come to our attention that some of the documents listed above may have come from the online library of the Pen Collectors of America, and that their free availability may be damaging to that organization. I have included an end-note addressing this on our site.
    David Armstrong
    --
    www.restorersart.com
    • Antiques for Readers & Writers •
    --
    www.sevanti-letterpress.com
    • Guaranteed Fountain Pen Friendly •

  4. #3
    Senior Member jacksterp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    484
    Thanks
    224
    Thanked 167 Times in 110 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Very nice post that I'm sure will help many people.

  5. #4
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Posts
    1,570
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,071 Times in 456 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by D Armstrong View Post
    It has come to our attention that some of the documents listed above may have come from the online library of the Pen Collectors of America, and that their free availability may be damaging to that organization. I have included an end-note addressing this on our site.
    I think that depends on whether or not the scans actually came from their site, or if someone else made scans themselves. If it's merely that it's the same content, personally I wouldn't worry as much about it (because documents and artwork and such as old as they are, are legally public domain, well tricky anyways).

    Is the scans the only thing PCA is good for?

  6. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Providence, Rhode Island
    Posts
    17
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    As far as I can tell, every single one of the scans was taken without permission from the PCA's Reference Library.

    To clarify, while a given book or document may be in the public domain (which is to say, it either was not copyrighted, or its copyright has expired), when someone digitizes that book or document, the resulting files are NOT automatically in the public domain. Companies such as Ancestry.com, for example, digitize huge quantities of public records. Access to the original records themselves is free, but the digital versions are another matter. One pays for the convenience, and for all the work involved. If Ancestry.com couldn't charge, they couldn't provide the service. It's that simple.

    Compared to services such as Ancestry.com, access to the PCA Reference Library is dirt cheap. The PCA is nonprofit, and anyone can join. And joining helps ensure that there is a central repository preserving pen reference material. The work of scanning new material and upgrading the old is ongoing, with a staggering amount of work still to be done. Yes, many institutions have put scanned material up on Google Books or the Internet Archive. In many of those cases, however, the expense of digitization was covered by outside grants. The PCA has not been so lucky, and so has had to rely upon its own resources, including a host of member volunteers. So please, if you think digitization of rare pen reference material is a good thing, support the organization that is putting the effort into actually doing it.

    David

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Vintagepens For This Useful Post:

    gregamckinney (July 1st, 2015), kirchh (August 29th, 2014), orfew (August 8th, 2014)

  8. #6
    Senior Member Robert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    555
    Thanks
    707
    Thanked 303 Times in 220 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Is the scans the only thing PCA is good for?
    Not at all. Here's a link to PCA's site: https://www.pencollectorsofamerica.com

    Their magazine is really nicely done - - very attractive and informative.

  9. #7
    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Posts
    1,570
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,071 Times in 456 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by Vintagepens View Post
    As far as I can tell, every single one of the scans was taken without permission from the PCA's Reference Library.

    To clarify, while a given book or document may be in the public domain (which is to say, it either was not copyrighted, or its copyright has expired), when someone digitizes that book or document, the resulting files are NOT automatically in the public domain. Companies such as Ancestry.com, for example, digitize huge quantities of public records. Access to the original records themselves is free, but the digital versions are another matter. One pays for the convenience, and for all the work involved. If Ancestry.com couldn't charge, they couldn't provide the service. It's that simple.

    Compared to services such as Ancestry.com, access to the PCA Reference Library is dirt cheap. The PCA is nonprofit, and anyone can join. And joining helps ensure that there is a central repository preserving pen reference material. The work of scanning new material and upgrading the old is ongoing, with a staggering amount of work still to be done. Yes, many institutions have put scanned material up on Google Books or the Internet Archive. In many of those cases, however, the expense of digitization was covered by outside grants. The PCA has not been so lucky, and so has had to rely upon its own resources, including a host of member volunteers. So please, if you think digitization of rare pen reference material is a good thing, support the organization that is putting the effort into actually doing it.

    David
    If they obtained the scans from PCA, then that indeed changes things (ie: not in favor of Archive). If they instead scanned it themselves (or was provided the scans with permission), then there's nothing really to debate.

    I'm all for the share of various mediums, especially historical documents, provided they're not obtained by illicit means (I'm not a member of PCA, but I imagine that part of the agreement when you become a member is that you will not share the resources and digital mediums to non-members). For my own purposes if I want to show off something, or use something for informational purposes, I will try to get a physical copy of it myself and scan it myself, or obtain permission from someone who has it. (As a photographer I feel the same way when it comes to photographs of pens etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Is the scans the only thing PCA is good for?
    Not at all. Here's a link to PCA's site: https://www.pencollectorsofamerica.com

    Their magazine is really nicely done - - very attractive and informative.

    My question was mainly to bring scrutiny to the claim that such availability of the scans would be "damaging" to the association. Which I wouldn't feel too bad about, however if the images were obtained *from* PCA without permission, then my stance would change.
    Last edited by KBeezie; August 3rd, 2014 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Providence, Rhode Island
    Posts
    17
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    I don't see it so much in terms of "damaging", either.
    If the scans just happened to cover the same material as the scans in the PCA library, no big deal.

    But this appears to be all about the PCA's scans being publicly posted for distribution without permission or even credit -- definitely not cool.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Vintagepens For This Useful Post:

    gregamckinney (July 1st, 2015), KBeezie (August 3rd, 2014), kirchh (August 29th, 2014)

  12. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    546
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 231 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    I think it's worth underlining the key points that David Armstrong made in his first post (even though, initially, he was unaware of the deserving recipient of his praises) -- that these PCA Library materials were contributed, scanned, and organized by kind and generous souls who did not make a profit on their materials or their labors. Furthermore, they represent a very valuable collection, and the importance of the information cannot be overstated. In addition to the catalogs, which contain such nuggets as the original length of the Waterman ribbons, there is the trove of repair manuals, which represent a lifeline for old pens. Clearly, they represent far more than merely being "a few files," as Mr. Armstrong demonstrates when he explains his delight in discovering an obscure fact in one of the Waterman catalogs -- he just hadn't realized that all this information was already available to any PCA member.

    And David bestowed this lavish -- and deserved -- praise on only a fraction of the materials that the PCA Library contains, which is high praise indeed for the value of the totality of the PCA Library's holdings. As someone recently observed, the library has hundreds of pen catalogs, pamphlets, brochures and other materials available online, and "if someone wonders what model is his 1920's black Parker pen, besides asking online at boards, he can search original company catalogues via the PCA. Access to the Library is gold. . . . If one wishes to learn a ton and to support the hobby, [joining the PCA] is a good way to do it."

    Other issues aside, PCA members should be grateful for Mr. Armstrong's compliments to the PCA's contributors, volunteers, and important holdings, and for drawing attention to the value of a PCA membership.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  13. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    540
    Thanks
    350
    Thanked 377 Times in 187 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    This has had a fairly decent "working over" on the FPB with some strong emotions shown and a bit feisty at times.

    There are two issues, on legal and the other ethical. Firstly the documents are in the public domain and digitizing them doesn't alter that fact which means the PCA has no rights to them as such nor any control over there use. They have a right to sell copies, a right to have them in a members only area and I think a right to mark the digital copies as from the PCA. If a copyright did exist it would most likely be owned by the pen companies. Given these are mostly advertising material then the pen companies (if still going) would probably view any material that raised brand awareness as good. The ethics is a different matter, reasons include the collecting of the material, the scanning, the source (ie provided to the PCA by the owner of the original etc), the pride of having a collection like that in one place and the feeling of being betrayed by those that put the "hard yards in". People can make up their own mind (legal v ethical) but the reality of the digital era makes any form of control difficult even when it occurs illegally ( look at music and torrents ). BTW I prefer the ethical viewpoint, so much that I joined the PCA.

    Modern catalogs would most likely be subject to copyright, it could be the company if "in house" or possibly the photographer if done out of house. Considering the purpose of the material was to advertise and provided free there is little reason for anyone/business/company to exercise it's copyright as it could be seen as beneficial in raising brand awareness, so for all practical purposes they can be copied and distributed ( it's hard to argue a financial reason when the product was free and copyright is about money in the wash up).

    Regards
    Hugh

    Disclaimer: This is a personal opinion.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to HughC For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (August 26th, 2014)

  15. #11
    Senior Member D Armstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario. Canada
    Posts
    126
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 122 Times in 62 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by HughC View Post
    Modern catalogs would most likely be subject to copyright, it could be the company if "in house" or possibly the photographer if done out of house.
    Modern catalogs are definitely under copyright. In fact, since March 1, 1989, in the US, all printed documents are copyrighted, whether there is a notice or not. The instant an expression is put into "fixed" form, it is covered by copyright. (cf Hirtle: Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States, https://copyright.cornell.edu/resour...blicdomain.cfm.)

    In the case of someone hired to provide content (such as a photographer or copywriter), they are considered to have transferred their copyrights to the hiring party (unless there is specific provision in their contract otherwise, which there usually isn't.)

    It's interesting to see someone recognize the difference in thinking between advertisers today, and those of a hundred years ago. Today, no one would dream of "giving away" any sort of rights to anything. But back then, copyright notice was rarely, if ever, put on advertising copy. It's not that they were unaware of the issue, or the requirements (after all, lawyers transcend time.) But, as High pointed out, I suspect they would have thought it insane to limit the use or distribution of their advertising. I can just imagine it: "They want to make extra copies and give them away? By all means! In fact, we'd have paid them to do it, the rubes..."
    David Armstrong
    --
    www.restorersart.com
    • Antiques for Readers & Writers •
    --
    www.sevanti-letterpress.com
    • Guaranteed Fountain Pen Friendly •

  16. #12
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 955 Times in 319 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by Vintagepens View Post
    As far as I can tell, every single one of the scans was taken without permission from the PCA's Reference Library.

    To clarify, while a given book or document may be in the public domain (which is to say, it either was not copyrighted, or its copyright has expired), when someone digitizes that book or document, the resulting files are NOT automatically in the public domain. Companies such as Ancestry.com, for example, digitize huge quantities of public records. Access to the original records themselves is free, but the digital versions are another matter. One pays for the convenience, and for all the work involved. If Ancestry.com couldn't charge, they couldn't provide the service. It's that simple.

    Compared to services such as Ancestry.com, access to the PCA Reference Library is dirt cheap. The PCA is nonprofit, and anyone can join. And joining helps ensure that there is a central repository preserving pen reference material. The work of scanning new material and upgrading the old is ongoing, with a staggering amount of work still to be done. Yes, many institutions have put scanned material up on Google Books or the Internet Archive. In many of those cases, however, the expense of digitization was covered by outside grants. The PCA has not been so lucky, and so has had to rely upon its own resources, including a host of member volunteers. So please, if you think digitization of rare pen reference material is a good thing, support the organization that is putting the effort into actually doing it.

    David
    One of the interesting notions illuminated by this discussion over at Fountain Pen Board (link to follow), is that no one has right to assert copyright over public domain documents. I do apologize on behalf of the PCA for some of the paranoid-ish rants offered by a PCA person aimed against beloved hobby author Paul Erano in the five page thread to follow, but the discussion of copyrights on old pen catalogues really is fascinating.


    http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/in...ts-now-online/

    regards

    david
    Last edited by david i; August 26th, 2014 at 08:51 PM.
    David R. Isaacson, MD

    http://www.vacumania.com : Sales site for guaranteed, restored collectible pens.

    The Fountain Pen Board /FPnuts : Archived Message Board with focus on vintage.

    The Fountain Pen Journal: The new glossy full-color print magazine, published/edited by iconic fountain pen author Paul Erano.

    Facebook pen group "Fountain Pens"/FPnuts: Davey's casual Facebook group for collectible pens.
    7500 members and growing. World's heftiest daily vintage pen eye candy

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to david i For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (August 26th, 2014)

  18. #13
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    554
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 475 Times in 209 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    D. Armstrong - Thanks for sharing the link.

    As for the rest of the drama... I can only shake my head. 6 pages and I think I finally got the gist of it:

    Altruism is good when you're the recipient, but altruism is bad when it has the potential to impact profit for selling things received from altruism.

  19. #14
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 955 Times in 319 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    D. Armstrong - Thanks for sharing the link.

    As for the rest of the drama... I can only shake my head. 6 pages and I think I finally got the gist of it:

    Altruism is good when you're the recipient, but altruism is bad when it has the potential to impact profit for selling things received from altruism.
    Philosophers can go at it for centuries, with textbooks filtering "it" down to a sentence centuries later. Six pages not so bad

    -d
    David R. Isaacson, MD

    http://www.vacumania.com : Sales site for guaranteed, restored collectible pens.

    The Fountain Pen Board /FPnuts : Archived Message Board with focus on vintage.

    The Fountain Pen Journal: The new glossy full-color print magazine, published/edited by iconic fountain pen author Paul Erano.

    Facebook pen group "Fountain Pens"/FPnuts: Davey's casual Facebook group for collectible pens.
    7500 members and growing. World's heftiest daily vintage pen eye candy

  20. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    546
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 231 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    D. Armstrong - Thanks for sharing the link.

    As for the rest of the drama... I can only shake my head. 6 pages and I think I finally got the gist of it:

    Altruism is good when you're the recipient, but altruism is bad when it has the potential to impact profit for selling things received from altruism.
    No, that's not the gist of it. You've missed the central point, actually.

    Altruism can be good when you decide to give away something you put time, money, and effort into creating. But purported altruism can be bad when you decide to give away -- without permission, or even acknowledgement -- something someone else put time, money, and effort into creating.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  21. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kirchh For This Useful Post:

    gregamckinney (July 1st, 2015), Jon Szanto (August 28th, 2014)

  22. #16
    Senior Member david i's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    994
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 955 Times in 319 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Note that while there is room always to discuss nuances regarding various courtesies, readers should not be misled to believe that "time, money, effort" convey any actual legal right to public domain material. Indeed, some of those who have tried to legally assert such rights have been found guilty of copyfraud. There is of course nothing wrong with offering easy access to public domain material while charging a fee for that easy access. But, some land on quicksand by embracing the belief that they have the right to exclude others from offering similar. The copying of public domain material does not offer one exclusive rights to offer said copies, even if one made the copies.

    I invite exploration of the subject at a healthy 6 page thread on the subject at Fountain Pen Board http://www.fountainpenboard.com/foru...ts-now-online/

    As an aside, if rumor is correct, the Fountain Pen Journal can welcome a Canadian pen collector to the ranks of pending contributors of articles. No doubt a good thing.

    regards

    David
    Last edited by david i; August 28th, 2014 at 09:24 AM.
    David R. Isaacson, MD

    http://www.vacumania.com : Sales site for guaranteed, restored collectible pens.

    The Fountain Pen Board /FPnuts : Archived Message Board with focus on vintage.

    The Fountain Pen Journal: The new glossy full-color print magazine, published/edited by iconic fountain pen author Paul Erano.

    Facebook pen group "Fountain Pens"/FPnuts: Davey's casual Facebook group for collectible pens.
    7500 members and growing. World's heftiest daily vintage pen eye candy

  23. #17
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    554
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 475 Times in 209 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    D. Armstrong - Thanks for sharing the link.

    As for the rest of the drama... I can only shake my head. 6 pages and I think I finally got the gist of it:

    Altruism is good when you're the recipient, but altruism is bad when it has the potential to impact profit for selling things received from altruism.
    No, that's not the gist of it. You've missed the central point, actually.

    Altruism can be good when you decide to give away something you put time, money, and effort into creating. But purported altruism can be bad when you decide to give away -- without permission, or even acknowledgement -- something someone else put time, money, and effort into creating.

    --Daniel
    Wouldn't it be worse to profit off of something that someone else (i.e.: the manufacturer) truly put time, money and effort in creating? Oh, that's when "public domain" is the key point and perfectly acceptable justification.

  24. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    546
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 231 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    D. Armstrong - Thanks for sharing the link.

    As for the rest of the drama... I can only shake my head. 6 pages and I think I finally got the gist of it:

    Altruism is good when you're the recipient, but altruism is bad when it has the potential to impact profit for selling things received from altruism.
    No, that's not the gist of it. You've missed the central point, actually.

    Altruism can be good when you decide to give away something you put time, money, and effort into creating. But purported altruism can be bad when you decide to give away -- without permission, or even acknowledgement -- something someone else put time, money, and effort into creating.

    --Daniel
    Wouldn't it be worse to profit off of something that someone else (i.e.: the manufacturer) truly put time, money and effort in creating? Oh, that's when "public domain" is the key point and perfectly acceptable justification.
    Excellent question. The answer is no. The reason is very simple. The manufacturer received exactly the benefit they anticipated when they created the material (assuming arguendo it was copyrighted).

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  25. #19
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    554
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 475 Times in 209 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    I'd be interested to see the ethical theory that justifies those two disparate viewpoints.

    Nobody (except the public) owned the documents. The outrage is ridiculous, and sounds like sour grapes because it is more difficult to profit from something that didn't belong to anyone in the first place.

  26. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    546
    Thanks
    41
    Thanked 231 Times in 111 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Public Domain Pen Documents Now Online

    I think a clarification will be useful here. There has been a conflation or blurring between rights conferred to the creator or owner of a work under copyright law, and rights that exist with regard to ownership (as in legal possession). These are distinct. A person or entity may lack protection under copyright law (by not owning the copyright to a work), but they may have rights due to the fact that they possess the work, or a copy thereof.

    If I purchase an old, out of copyright catalog, I don't acquire a copyright on the contents of the catalog. If I make a photocopy of the catalog, I don't acquire the copyright on the photocopy. However, no one has the right to reproduce my photocopy without my permission, because they would need my permission to possess the photocopy in order to reproduce it. This is not due to any copyright ownership. No one can assert that because the photocopy is not protected by copyright, I must permit anyone who requests it to borrow it so that they can copy it, and certainly no one can assert that I must distribute or otherwise make available my photocopy to the public because it's not copyrightable. Therefore, I control my reproduction through possession, not via copyright. I can grant someone permission to make a copy under a set of terms that I craft, which may include restrictions on any further dissemination; a potential acquirer of such a copy is free to accept or to reject these conditions for receiving access to the copy. All of the preceding applies to a digital copy as well as to a paper photocopy.

    So, the copying of public domain material does confer exclusive rights to offer those copies (though not because of the acquisition of a copyright on the copies), until that right is surrendered explicitly or implicitly (by failing to attach terms when distributing copies of the material).

    There may be a misapprehension that it is legally impermissible to make copies of public-domain materials and then not to make those copies freely available to any member of the public, because the copier does not acquire a copyright on the copies. That's simply incorrect. There may also be an opinion among some that it is unethical to make copies of public-domain materials and then not to make those copies freely available to any member of the public, because the copier does not acquire a copyright on the copies. I don't hold that opinion.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to kirchh For This Useful Post:

    Brisboy (August 28th, 2014)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •