Mabie Todd discoloration

[7188photo]

Hello folks!
I got myself my 2nd vintage pen, a Mabie Todd Blackbird BB-2 60 (whatever the 60 means) and, well, it's kind of brown'ish? Personally, I like the color and pattern, but it is only brown where not exposed to the outside - the other parts are black, which is especially visible at the body, where the threads for the cap and a cm above are black just right to where the screwed on cap ends.
At first I was worried the discoloration is because I soaked the pen in water (and I'm afraid I don't remember exactly how much discolored it was before I soaked it), but because the body is still black at the end with the threads I think it might have been like this before.




Any thoughts on the color? I was thinking it might be due to UV radiation or something over many decades of lying around on a desk, but that doesn't really explain the even discoloration on all sides...

Cheers and have a great week!
Holger

[HughC]

Your pen is made of black (or was once!!) hard rubber (commonly just BHR) which does fade over time. Light is the main culprit as the bit covered by the cap shows, anyway the only thing it affects is value. You can re-black it you like ( amongst "hardcore" collectors this is a contentious issue especially with high value pens) or just enjoy it as is. Water doesn't affect BHR.

Regards
Hugh

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Holger,

The code 60 is Mabie Todd's colour code for 'black' pens.

[Jon Szanto]

I would highly suggest taking a look at this page, and from the menu on the left select the section "Discoloration and its causes".

This information is from the website of David Nishimura, a highly respected source for vintage pens. I would recommend going to the home page for his FAQ pages, because there is a wealth of information. In the above cited article, for instance, it suggests why you should never soak a hard rubber pen, once it has begun to degrade, in water. Always good to read up on these things before you start doing anything to a really old piece of vintage workmanship.

[Jeph]

Water does not affect hard rubber that has not started to break down. Once the chains have started to break it most certianly does, and depending on how bad of shape the surface is in, water can turn a black pen that color of brown in minutes. That is why frequently the section (that is almost always covered and thus has not breaking down from light exposure) and portion covered by the cap will not turn color or at least not as quickly.

[Deb]

Soaking a whole pen is never necessary and is frequently damaging to BHR, casein and some celluloids. I'm not sure what it is that people imagine they will achieve by soaking. I restore several hundreds of pens a year and I don't soak anything. For tight joints heat is invariably the answer and for dried ink careful selective washing does the trick.

[7188photo]

Water does not affect hard rubber that has not started to break down. Once the chains have started to break it most certianly does, and depending on how bad of shape the surface is in, water can turn a black pen that color of brown in minutes. That is why frequently the section (that is almost always covered and thus has not breaking down from light exposure) and portion covered by the cap will not turn color or at least not as quickly.

This is such an awesome explanation! Thanks! Now it makes perfectly sense to me Oh well, I learnt my lesson!

[7188photo]

Soaking a whole pen is never necessary and is frequently damaging to BHR, casein and some celluloids. I'm not sure what it is that people imagine they will achieve by soaking. I restore several hundreds of pens a year and I don't soak anything. For tight joints heat is invariably the answer and for dried ink careful selective washing does the trick.

Well, if I had known that water does to the pen what it did, I wouldn't have soaked it either Otherwise it's a perfectly easy hands-off way to dissolve most of all the crusty ink and crap all around and everywhere of the pen. Just give it a bath for a day or so, rinse it, and all that stuff comes off much easier. A lazy man's solution.
Funny enough, though, I remember seeing a video on Youtube about that old Japanese fountain pen repair "master" and in the video he says that most problems with old pens can be fixed by bathing it in water for a night and that this is what he recommends to people calling him to get their pen fixed.

So yeah, anyway, lesson learnt :P

[discopig]

Your pen is made of black (or was once!!) hard rubber (commonly just BHR) which does fade over time. Light is the main culprit as the bit covered by the cap shows, anyway the only thing it affects is value. You can re-black it you like ( amongst "hardcore" collectors this is a contentious issue especially with high value pens) or just enjoy it as is. Water doesn't affect BHR.

Regards
Hugh

I've made the mistake of soaking the section of an old Waterman BHR pen and it definitely discolored in the water.

[Cob]

Swan's numbering (like most manufacturers actually) can be rather difficult - though there are worse offenders in my view. The BB2-60 is, as has already been said made of BHR. Later, Swan used 60 as the code for black celluloid and 61 for BHR!

I learned my lesson: I clean my sections (internally) with cotton-wool buds, the small ones with pipe-cleaners.

Cob

[7188photo]

Swan's numbering (like most manufacturers actually) can be rather difficult - though there are worse offenders in my view. The BB2-60 is, as has already been said made of BHR. Later, Swan used 60 as the code for black celluloid and 61 for BHR!

I learned my lesson: I clean my sections (internally) with cotton-wool buds, the small ones with pipe-cleaners.

Cob

So wait a second, the manufacturer is Swan?
This is all very confusing to me, isn't there like a comprehensive table of the most important manufacturers and all the models they brought out, plus roughly when, and a simple explanation of the numbers (in case they have any meaning)?
You'd think someone would put that knowledge somewhere together for reference.

[RuiFromUK]

Swan's numbering (like most manufacturers actually) can be rather difficult - though there are worse offenders in my view. The BB2-60 is, as has already been said made of BHR. Later, Swan used 60 as the code for black celluloid and 61 for BHR!

I learned my lesson: I clean my sections (internally) with cotton-wool buds, the small ones with pipe-cleaners.

Cob

So wait a second, the manufacturer is Swan?
This is all very confusing to me, isn't there like a comprehensive table of the most important manufacturers and all the models they brought out, plus roughly when, and a simple explanation of the numbers (in case they have any meaning)?
You'd think someone would put that knowledge somewhere together for reference.

The manufacturer of Swan pens (and Blackbird, Jackdaw and Swallow pens) was Mabie Todd.

John Brindle has tried to compile a list of all the pen models made by this company. You can find his latest listing in this website: http://www.mabietoddpenlists.co.uk/

Hopefully this will help you.

[Deb]

Insofar as it can be done it has been done for Mabie Todd (http://www.mabietoddpenlists.co.uk/index.html) and Conway Stewart (http://jonathandonahaye.conwaystewar...book/page1.htm). However it is unlikely that these lists will ever be complete. Much of the Conway Stewart archive was disposed of when the company folded in the 1970s and the bulk of Mabie Todd's records were destroyed by enemy bombing in World War II.

We owe a great debt of gratitude to John Brindle who has devoted hundreds of hours of research to compiling the Mabie Todd list and to the late Jonathan Donahaye for putting together the Conway Stewart list which remains the first port of call for quick identification of Conway Stewarts.