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Thread: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    So I currently have a Blue Carbonesque Vanishing Point with a Fine 14K Nib (Rhodium plated) that I got used but I had to soak, clean, align/etc it, and even after all the cleaning I attempted it's still a very dry writer unable to squiggle a square patch on paper completely or sometimes fading in the middle of writing before allowing the feed to catch up again.

    My prefered choices of inks don't exactly flow quite as well in the VP but has been no problems in any of my other Pilot pens so I just figured this was mainly an issue with the VP nib units (and maybe there might be some ancient ink deep in the feed where the metal covers, despite having soaked it overnight least on two occasions). Though Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo seems to be flowing consistently, just not wet (and I only got maybe 1ml left of that from the sample vial), would love to use the Liberty's Elysium in it though (akkerman #5 being a close non-waterproof alternative).

    Since a new nib unit is relatively inexpensive (56 if I wanted to get an unplated one from Richard binder or 62 for rhodium plating), I was looking at the possibility of spending a bit more for one of their pre-ground specialty nibs. I understand that either route, they will test and adjust the nibs before shipping (which I presume also means checking for adequate flow).

    The main thing I'm curious about are between something like an italic (possibly softer cursive, and *maybe* in a left oblique since I do sometimes tilt slightly to the left when writing faster), or something like the ItalliFine for dual-purpose. Kind of wondering what 0.9 and 0.7 is like on paper when it comes to the VP nibs.

    Figured after I got one, I could decide to keep the fine nib set aside as a backup, or probably sell it (ie: 40ish to offset the new nib's cost, etc).

    I'm also curious about the Waverly XXF if they're as smooth as they say, and in the grand scheme of things, just $10 if I want to attempt going finer (better suited ink is of course warranted).

    edit:

    I have a second Vanishing Point coming with a Medium 14K nib, so I have that as an option (meaning I won't feel 'stuck' with just one nib size for either of my VPs, whichever way I decide to replace the Fine).
    Last edited by KBeezie; August 27th, 2014 at 10:38 PM.

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    Senior Member Silverbreeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    So I currently have a Blue Carbonesque Vanishing Point with a Fine 14K Nib (Rhodium plated) that I got used but I had to soak, clean, align/etc it, and even after all the cleaning I attempted it's still a very dry writer unable to squiggle a square patch on paper completely or sometimes fading in the middle of writing before allowing the feed to catch up again.

    My prefered choices of inks don't exactly flow quite as well in the VP but has been no problems in any of my other Pilot pens so I just figured this was mainly an issue with the VP nib units (and maybe there might be some ancient ink deep in the feed where the metal covers, despite having soaked it overnight least on two occasions). Though Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo seems to be flowing consistently, just not wet (and I only got maybe 1ml left of that from the sample vial), would love to use the Liberty's Elysium in it though (akkerman #5 being a close non-waterproof alternative).

    Since a new nib unit is relatively inexpensive (56 if I wanted to get an unplated one from Richard binder or 62 for rhodium plating), I was looking at the possibility of spending a bit more for one of their pre-ground specialty nibs. I understand that either route, they will test and adjust the nibs before shipping (which I presume also means checking for adequate flow).

    The main thing I'm curious about are between something like an italic (possibly softer cursive, and *maybe* in a left oblique since I do sometimes tilt slightly to the left when writing faster), or something like the ItalliFine for dual-purpose. Kind of wondering what 0.9 and 0.7 is like on paper when it comes to the VP nibs.

    Figured after I got one, I could decide to keep the fine nib set aside as a backup, or probably sell it (ie: 40ish to offset the new nib's cost, etc).

    I'm also curious about the Waverly XXF if they're as smooth as they say, and in the grand scheme of things, just $10 if I want to attempt going finer (better suited ink is of course warranted).

    edit:

    I have a second Vanishing Point coming with a Medium 14K nib, so I have that as an option (meaning I won't feel 'stuck' with just one nib size for either of my VPs, whichever way I decide to replace the Fine).
    I have a Italic-fine from Richard. He does great work.I think you will be happy which ever grind you chose.VP nibs are sharper in shape just because of the needs of the design not sure how nice a needle would be in practice

    Tom
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    I have one of Binder's Waverley XXF nibs for my Vanishing Point. It's very smooth but also very wet (I tend to use Pilot Blue-black cartridges in my VPs, which is a relatively free-flowing ink) and so only marginally finer than the standard XF nib. But I love the Waverley point and use it all the time for marginalia and editorial marks. I think the slightly upturned tip does make a difference re: smoothness. There's a hint of feedback but only enough not to slip around on slick paper like Rhodia.

    I also have one of Binder's 0.6mm stub nibs and one of his 0.9mm cursive italic nibs for my VPs, but I hardly ever use them. I use my VPs primarily for quick notes and for editing--so I tend to stick with the XXF and XF round nibs. But both of the italic nibs are nice, putting down a crisp line with a great thick:thin ratio. It just depends on what kind of writing you tend to use these pens for.

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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by reprieve View Post
    I have one of Binder's Waverley XXF nibs for my Vanishing Point. It's very smooth but also very wet (I tend to use Pilot Blue-black cartridges in my VPs, which is a relatively free-flowing ink) and so only marginally finer than the standard XF nib. But I love the Waverley point and use it all the time for marginalia and editorial marks. I think the slightly upturned tip does make a difference re: smoothness. There's a hint of feedback but only enough not to slip around on slick paper like Rhodia.

    I also have one of Binder's 0.6mm stub nibs and one of his 0.9mm cursive italic nibs for my VPs, but I hardly ever use them. I use my VPs primarily for quick notes and for editing--so I tend to stick with the XXF and XF round nibs. But both of the italic nibs are nice, putting down a crisp line with a great thick:thin ratio. It just depends on what kind of writing you tend to use these pens for.
    You may or may not know, but I'm curious if you feel that the waverly XXF would be wet enough to handle more saturated inks like Noodler's Liberty's Elysium in terms of decent flow.

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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reprieve View Post
    I have one of Binder's Waverley XXF nibs for my Vanishing Point. It's very smooth but also very wet (I tend to use Pilot Blue-black cartridges in my VPs, which is a relatively free-flowing ink) and so only marginally finer than the standard XF nib. But I love the Waverley point and use it all the time for marginalia and editorial marks. I think the slightly upturned tip does make a difference re: smoothness. There's a hint of feedback but only enough not to slip around on slick paper like Rhodia.

    I also have one of Binder's 0.6mm stub nibs and one of his 0.9mm cursive italic nibs for my VPs, but I hardly ever use them. I use my VPs primarily for quick notes and for editing--so I tend to stick with the XXF and XF round nibs. But both of the italic nibs are nice, putting down a crisp line with a great thick:thin ratio. It just depends on what kind of writing you tend to use these pens for.
    You may or may not know, but I'm curious if you feel that the waverly XXF would be wet enough to handle more saturated inks like Noodler's Liberty's Elysium in terms of decent flow.
    I also would like to know about the flow
    Tom
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    My regular fine nibbed Vanishing Point was bought from Richard Binder, and thus aligned before I got it. It writes beautifully, not dry at all, and if you didn't want one of his more expensive special grinds, you could try just getting a "regular". I do have a couple of his special grinds for different pens, and they are well done, but may not have been worth it for the amount that I actually use them. Whether they're worth it for you depends more on why you want them than any concern about the quality.
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    Senior Member KBeezie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaputnik View Post
    My regular fine nibbed Vanishing Point was bought from Richard Binder, and thus aligned before I got it. It writes beautifully, not dry at all, and if you didn't want one of his more expensive special grinds, you could try just getting a "regular". I do have a couple of his special grinds for different pens, and they are well done, but may not have been worth it for the amount that I actually use them. Whether they're worth it for you depends more on why you want them than any concern about the quality.
    I have no doubt that the standard stock ones would come all pre-tuned and such (and nice to know that they won't be just dry out of the box), just one of those times where I'm like, I'm already planning on spending 50-60... maybe I can go 30-40 more and take the opportunity to get something unique.

    Course when I get the VP with the medium nib tomorrow, I'll have an idea of which way I want to go (ie: if the medium is fine enough and wet enough for my taste, I may take the gamble on something like a waverly XXF, or go the other route and get a 0.7 Itallifine if the medium I get is fine enough to be my 'finer' VP nib).

    Right now with my Fine nib after several self-adjustments it's flowing thin but consistently with some Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo (which I don't have much left from a sample vial), but due to the dryness perhaps, the line it puts down is finer than the "Fine" my metropolitan or Petit1 has, it's basically a very smooth Pilot EF for me right now, just lacking the wetness I'd desire for more saturated inks.

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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    I have a stub and 0.7mm CI nibs, both Pelikan m200. His grinds are sharp. The stub writes like CI. I like the line variation in both, but wish they were a bit smoothed out like Pendleton's CIs

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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaputnik View Post
    My regular fine nibbed Vanishing Point was bought from Richard Binder, and thus aligned before I got it. It writes beautifully, not dry at all, and if you didn't want one of his more expensive special grinds, you could try just getting a "regular". I do have a couple of his special grinds for different pens, and they are well done, but may not have been worth it for the amount that I actually use them. Whether they're worth it for you depends more on why you want them than any concern about the quality.
    I have no doubt that the standard stock ones would come all pre-tuned and such (and nice to know that they won't be just dry out of the box), just one of those times where I'm like, I'm already planning on spending 50-60... maybe I can go 30-40 more and take the opportunity to get something unique.

    Course when I get the VP with the medium nib tomorrow, I'll have an idea of which way I want to go (ie: if the medium is fine enough and wet enough for my taste, I may take the gamble on something like a waverly XXF, or go the other route and get a 0.7 Itallifine if the medium I get is fine enough to be my 'finer' VP nib).

    Right now with my Fine nib after several self-adjustments it's flowing thin but consistently with some Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo (which I don't have much left from a sample vial), but due to the dryness perhaps, the line it puts down is finer than the "Fine" my metropolitan or Petit1 has, it's basically a very smooth Pilot EF for me right now, just lacking the wetness I'd desire for more saturated inks.
    You may need an 8 on Rivhard's scale. I would email him and ask
    Tom
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Number 8?

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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Maybe he means wetness?
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Number 8?
    Richard Binder tunes nibs on a 1 to 10 scale for wetness.
    Sounds to me you want an 8, but I would email and ask
    Tom
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    Senior Member Chi Town's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    I think that they are a GREAT idea for to be able to take a basic ok pen or even a daily carry and turn it into a powerful power pen! OR they are good to fix probelms within your handwriting....for example; when i write, i am right handed, and I always roll my pens backwards for some reason which really makes it difficult when writting....So If I were to put a "Left Handed Oblique cut" on my nibs it fixes my problem and I can now write like a normal person! But with a flair on the nib........People like Mike Masuyama ( Mike-it-work) are just incredidble people in my life as he can make that "LHO cut" for me as can Shawn Newton of Newton Pen's right here on FPN can also make that cut for me!
    Last edited by Chi Town; August 29th, 2014 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Left off some information
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    If you want an amazing experience go see one of the Masters in person at a show though. Pre-groin as great .... I am fixated on CI right now. If my life calms for 2015, I plan to take a pen with a standard nib and have Masuyama watch me write and then CI grind it for me of his observation at DC 2015-
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reprieve View Post
    I have one of Binder's Waverley XXF nibs for my Vanishing Point. It's very smooth but also very wet (I tend to use Pilot Blue-black cartridges in my VPs, which is a relatively free-flowing ink) and so only marginally finer than the standard XF nib. But I love the Waverley point and use it all the time for marginalia and editorial marks. I think the slightly upturned tip does make a difference re: smoothness. There's a hint of feedback but only enough not to slip around on slick paper like Rhodia.

    I also have one of Binder's 0.6mm stub nibs and one of his 0.9mm cursive italic nibs for my VPs, but I hardly ever use them. I use my VPs primarily for quick notes and for editing--so I tend to stick with the XXF and XF round nibs. But both of the italic nibs are nice, putting down a crisp line with a great thick:thin ratio. It just depends on what kind of writing you tend to use these pens for.
    You may or may not know, but I'm curious if you feel that the waverly XXF would be wet enough to handle more saturated inks like Noodler's Liberty's Elysium in terms of decent flow.
    I've not used Liberty's Elysium in my Waverley XXF nib, but I don't think it would cause any flow issues. The more saturated inks I've used with that particular nib are Noodler's Walnut and Diamine Majestic Blue and flow has been consistent and wet. With those ink+nib combinations, the only problem I ran into was a bit of smudging because of long drying times.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    So I currently have a Blue Carbonesque Vanishing Point with a Fine 14K Nib (Rhodium plated) that I got used but I had to soak, clean, align/etc it, and even after all the cleaning I attempted it's still a very dry writer unable to squiggle a square patch on paper completely or sometimes fading in the middle of writing before allowing the feed to catch up again.

    My prefered choices of inks don't exactly flow quite as well in the VP but has been no problems in any of my other Pilot pens so I just figured this was mainly an issue with the VP nib units (and maybe there might be some ancient ink deep in the feed where the metal covers, despite having soaked it overnight least on two occasions). Though Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo seems to be flowing consistently, just not wet (and I only got maybe 1ml left of that from the sample vial), would love to use the Liberty's Elysium in it though (akkerman #5 being a close non-waterproof alternative).

    Since a new nib unit is relatively inexpensive (56 if I wanted to get an unplated one from Richard binder or 62 for rhodium plating), I was looking at the possibility of spending a bit more for one of their pre-ground specialty nibs. I understand that either route, they will test and adjust the nibs before shipping (which I presume also means checking for adequate flow).

    The main thing I'm curious about are between something like an italic (possibly softer cursive, and *maybe* in a left oblique since I do sometimes tilt slightly to the left when writing faster), or something like the ItalliFine for dual-purpose. Kind of wondering what 0.9 and 0.7 is like on paper when it comes to the VP nibs.

    Figured after I got one, I could decide to keep the fine nib set aside as a backup, or probably sell it (ie: 40ish to offset the new nib's cost, etc).

    I'm also curious about the Waverly XXF if they're as smooth as they say, and in the grand scheme of things, just $10 if I want to attempt going finer (better suited ink is of course warranted).

    edit:

    I have a second Vanishing Point coming with a Medium 14K nib, so I have that as an option (meaning I won't feel 'stuck' with just one nib size for either of my VPs, whichever way I decide to replace the Fine).
    Richard's "stock" nibs are quite wet and free-flowing, in my experience. A stub would be your safest bet (I'm addressing your possible oblique), and my .6mm stub from Richard is very forgiving.

    As far as the 0.9 and 0.7, the fact that it's a VP nib isn't particularly relevant. The fact that it comes from Richard is. It will write a line as specified (not counting absorbent paper or other factors that can increase line width), and be plenty wet.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Eh. Richard's cursive italics are very forgiving. Or maybe I'm just used to italics. I find them very usable. Most stubs are so blunt they don't give nearly enough variation and feel like you are writing with a stick, I'm not a fan. If getting a nib ground ask for a cursive italic with the shoulders softened, smooth as butter and no paper catch. And if someone is really having trouble it may be that you need a bit of an oblique angle on your nib. The problem may not be the nib, it may be you are rotating it ever so slightly and so the edges and catching the paper. I get a 30 degree left foot oblique cursive italic and in my hand there is nothing sharp about that, glides perfectly every time because the edges never touch the paper, I'm holding it at the right angle.
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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    I make recommendations that err on the side of caution.

    My Binder stub exhibits quite a bit of variation.

    Last edited by dneal; August 29th, 2014 at 11:49 AM.

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    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I make recommendations that err on the side of caution.

    My Binder stub exhibits quite a bit of variation.

    Now don't get offended. "eh." Is mostly just a linguistic shrug. I'm glad Mr. Binder's stub is better than the run of the mill stubs. That's to be expected. I'm simply saying don't skip the cursive italic. They are highly usable, highly.
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  21. #20
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Your thoughts on pre-ground specialty nibs

    Personally I would also buy a cursive italic over a stub; but just as there are "uninspiring" stubs, there are cursive italics that are too crisp for casual use. I think that a lot of users don't understand the attention to position that CI's can require. I seem to recall a post that Greg Minuskin quit offering CI's for this reason...

    I absolutely love Pendleton Brown's "Butter Line Stub" (which has dramatic variation while being very smooth and forgiving) and would consider it a very smooth CI.

    For a pre-ground nib from Richard Binder, the stub is a good place to start.

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