Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Parker 51 vac. Restore

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    354
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 114 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Parker 51 vac. Restore


  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    I generally try to avoid soaking the filler. The different metals have favorable half-cell potentials to promote corrosion.

    But sometimes you do need to get them wet.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Farmboy For This Useful Post:

    LagNut (October 14th, 2014)

  4. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    354
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 114 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Farmboy, what is the filler? No I'm not be funny. I really don't know what the filler is

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    The filler unit is the spring loaded rod at the back end of the pen. It is threaded into the barrel with a retaining nut and is made of a celluloid rod, and usually an aluminum ferrule and steel spring. The metal parts will corrode easily. If you are blessed with a carbon steel spring, it can go to junk quickly.

    Todd

  6. #5
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    The first time I did one of these, quite recently, I found that the filler unit unscrewed from the barrel using some rubber gripping material to grip the exposed threads on the filler unit and just unscrewing it. There is no sealant used on the threads. To make it easy, I bought a brass filler unit with the sac installed. This is not cheap, about $30. It would have been less expensive to resac the old filler unit, which is still good. I just screwed the new filler unit into the barrel. Apparently when it stops threading into the barrel it forms a seal. I filled the pen and it works, no leaks. I didn't disassemble the front end of the pen.

    What I did do was to use shellac on the filler unit threads. Warned that this was not recommended, I removed the filler unit and used alcohol on a Q-tip to remove the shellac from the filler and from the barrel threads. Then I screwed the filler unit back in. I used the rubber gripping material to snug it. The pen works fine. I can't believe how simple this was.

    EDIT: I forgot to put in that I used a pic to remove old sac material from the barrel before installing the new filler unit.
    Last edited by pajaro; September 28th, 2014 at 08:41 AM.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    2,071
    Thanks
    1,519
    Thanked 2,593 Times in 1,021 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    The first time I did one of these, quite recently, I found that the filler unit unscrewed from the barrel using some rubber gripping material to grip the exposed threads on the filler unit and just unscrewing it. There is no sealant used on the threads. To make it easy, I bought a brass filler unit with the sac installed. This is not cheap, about $30. It would have been less expensive to resac the old filler unit, which is still good. I just screwed the new filler unit into the barrel. Apparently when it stops threading into the barrel it forms a seal. I filled the pen and it works, no leaks. I didn't disassemble the front end of the pen.

    What I did do was to use shellac on the filler unit threads. Warned that this was not recommended, I removed the filler unit and used alcohol on a Q-tip to remove the shellac from the filler and from the barrel threads. Then I screwed the filler unit back in. I used the rubber gripping material to snug it. The pen works fine. I can't believe how simple this was.

    EDIT: I forgot to put in that I used a pic to remove old sac material from the barrel before installing the new filler unit.
    I think this varies. I've done a few, and in most of mine found some sort of sealant used on those filler unit threads. I even had one where the mystery sealant wasn't shellac, so it was murder to remove. A tiny bit of shellac is sometimes necessary to keep the filler unit from unscrewing with the blind cap, which may account for the variation. Also these have been around for a lot of years and may have been repaired in the past.

    Where did you find a brass filler unit with sac, may I ask?

  8. #7
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    The first time I did one of these, quite recently, I found that the filler unit unscrewed from the barrel using some rubber gripping material to grip the exposed threads on the filler unit and just unscrewing it. There is no sealant used on the threads. To make it easy, I bought a brass filler unit with the sac installed. This is not cheap, about $30. It would have been less expensive to resac the old filler unit, which is still good. I just screwed the new filler unit into the barrel. Apparently when it stops threading into the barrel it forms a seal. I filled the pen and it works, no leaks. I didn't disassemble the front end of the pen.

    What I did do was to use shellac on the filler unit threads. Warned that this was not recommended, I removed the filler unit and used alcohol on a Q-tip to remove the shellac from the filler and from the barrel threads. Then I screwed the filler unit back in. I used the rubber gripping material to snug it. The pen works fine. I can't believe how simple this was.

    EDIT: I forgot to put in that I used a pic to remove old sac material from the barrel before installing the new filler unit.
    I think this varies. I've done a few, and in most of mine found some sort of sealant used on those filler unit threads. I even had one where the mystery sealant wasn't shellac, so it was murder to remove. A tiny bit of shellac is sometimes necessary to keep the filler unit from unscrewing with the blind cap, which may account for the variation. Also these have been around for a lot of years and may have been repaired in the past.

    Where did you find a brass filler unit with sac, may I ask?
    I found the brass filler unit with sac installed on ebay and also on FPN classifieds, jaxxon is the seller.

    I posted that I had used a miniscule dab of shellac on the filler threads and the response was never do it, from FPN. However, you are correct to assess each pen individually for whether sealant might be needed. On two I have done it wasn't, but the first pen worked OK with a very small amount of sealant, just enough to keep the filler from unscrewing with the blind cap, as you point out. It's a judgement call, and if you are doing the repair, you make the call.

    There are Vac filler removal tools, things you screw onto the exposed threads and use to unscrew the filler. I think the main advantage is leverage the tool gives, a mechanical advantage. I think they are forty or fifty bucks. You have to expect to do a number of vac filler resacs to make it worth it. Unscrewing the filler with the rubber grip aid did hurt my fingers, but I am a cheapskate. For forty or fifty bucks I could buy another pen to add to the couple of hundred I already have and leave me wondering what pen to use next.

    Doing these sac R&Rs was more fun than I would have thought, and I think I now like the 51 Vacs as much as the aeros.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to pajaro For This Useful Post:

    Laura N (September 28th, 2014)

  10. #8
    Senior Member Laura N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    2,071
    Thanks
    1,519
    Thanked 2,593 Times in 1,021 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    The first time I did one of these, quite recently, I found that the filler unit unscrewed from the barrel using some rubber gripping material to grip the exposed threads on the filler unit and just unscrewing it. There is no sealant used on the threads. To make it easy, I bought a brass filler unit with the sac installed. This is not cheap, about $30. It would have been less expensive to resac the old filler unit, which is still good. I just screwed the new filler unit into the barrel. Apparently when it stops threading into the barrel it forms a seal. I filled the pen and it works, no leaks. I didn't disassemble the front end of the pen.

    What I did do was to use shellac on the filler unit threads. Warned that this was not recommended, I removed the filler unit and used alcohol on a Q-tip to remove the shellac from the filler and from the barrel threads. Then I screwed the filler unit back in. I used the rubber gripping material to snug it. The pen works fine. I can't believe how simple this was.

    EDIT: I forgot to put in that I used a pic to remove old sac material from the barrel before installing the new filler unit.
    I think this varies. I've done a few, and in most of mine found some sort of sealant used on those filler unit threads. I even had one where the mystery sealant wasn't shellac, so it was murder to remove. A tiny bit of shellac is sometimes necessary to keep the filler unit from unscrewing with the blind cap, which may account for the variation. Also these have been around for a lot of years and may have been repaired in the past.

    Where did you find a brass filler unit with sac, may I ask?
    I found the brass filler unit with sac installed on ebay and also on FPN classifieds, jaxxon is the seller.

    I posted that I had used a miniscule dab of shellac on the filler threads and the response was never do it, from FPN. However, you are correct to assess each pen individually for whether sealant might be needed. On two I have done it wasn't, but the first pen worked OK with a very small amount of sealant, just enough to keep the filler from unscrewing with the blind cap, as you point out. It's a judgement call, and if you are doing the repair, you make the call.

    There are Vac filler removal tools, things you screw onto the exposed threads and use to unscrew the filler. I think the main advantage is leverage the tool gives, a mechanical advantage. I think they are forty or fifty bucks. You have to expect to do a number of vac filler resacs to make it worth it. Unscrewing the filler with the rubber grip aid did hurt my fingers, but I am a cheapskate. For forty or fifty bucks I could buy another pen to add to the couple of hundred I already have and leave me wondering what pen to use next.

    Doing these sac R&Rs was more fun than I would have thought, and I think I now like the 51 Vacs as much as the aeros.
    I had the same reaction. I gained so much appreciation for the vac filler -- it's a really great mechanism, which I didn't appreciate fully until I saw it up close.

    I did the sac replacements. I have to say those are challenging. Even some experienced guys I know said they mess it up every once in a while. Or maybe they were trying to make me feel better.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Laura N For This Useful Post:

    GING GING (October 13th, 2014)

  12. #9
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Which is why I bought a couple of brass filler units with sac installed. I knew I would be in over my head trying to replace the pellet cup and cementing the sac to the filler unit with a drop of cement, as the instructions that came with the brass unit said, to use a drop of cement to attach the sac. I could have used the old filler units and attached the sac, but until I had the filler units out, I didn't have any idea what was involved. If the filler unit comes out intact, all you have to do is get the sac remnants out of the pen and cement the sac to the filler unit. I am guessing that knowledgable repairers don't use super glue, probably sac cement, whatever that is, but you can buy it.

    edit to add: This is a good reason to repair your own pens. If you have instructions, by repairing the pen you can get a clear picture of how the pen works, and this inspires confidence in the pen. The pen then becomes something more than a black box full of mystery.
    Last edited by pajaro; September 29th, 2014 at 01:25 AM.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pajaro For This Useful Post:

    LagNut (October 1st, 2014), Scrawler (October 14th, 2014)

  14. #10
    Senior Member gweddig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 93 Times in 49 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    I have tried the brass filling units on two occasions. They functioned well in both instances. My only complaint is that, because of their weight the throw off the balance of the pen for me.
    I generally try to seek out original parts but was curious about the reproductions.

    --greg

  15. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    SFO USA
    Posts
    1,375
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1,113 Times in 573 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by gweddig View Post
    I have tried the brass filling units on two occasions. They functioned well in both instances. My only complaint is that, because of their weight the throw off the balance of the pen for me.
    I generally try to seek out original parts but was curious about the reproductions.

    --greg
    It has been my observation that the reproduction fillers have caused a price increase in good original fillers. I don't understand why but it is my observation.

    I'm there with the rebuilt originals having access to new pellet cups and springs.

    Farmer-

  16. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    354
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 114 Times in 74 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    The filler unit is the spring loaded rod at the back end of the pen. It is threaded into the barrel with a retaining nut and is made of a celluloid rod, and usually an aluminum ferrule and steel spring. The metal parts will corrode easily. If you are blessed with a carbon steel spring, it can go to junk quickly.

    Todd
    Okay, great. That's what I broke earlier today. It's not a big deal just the cost of learning. I'll either have it replaced or have it fixed. But I did get it apart. APART is what broke it. Torquing worked fine in the beginning. I guess my luck ran out

  17. #13
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    6,616
    Thanks
    7,795
    Thanked 11,039 Times in 4,010 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by GING GING View Post
    Okay, great. That's what I broke earlier today. It's not a big deal just the cost of learning. I'll either have it replaced or have it fixed. But I did get it apart. APART is what broke it. Torquing worked fine in the beginning. I guess my luck ran out
    Of all the elements of repair and restoration, luck is the least. Patience, knowledge, good tools, prudence - these are all the important parts. The older the item, the more you lean on these parts of the process. Counting on luck is right up there with the Tooth Fairy: it needs to be left behind.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Jon Szanto For This Useful Post:

    LagNut (October 1st, 2014)

  19. #14
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    I find the brass fillers make no difference I can feel in the balance in the restored pen. I like the look of them. Theoretically the brass ought to make the pen rear heavy, but the amount of brass is small. Compare them with the amount of brass in a piston filler like the Pelikan M1000 or M800 and the result in the P51 is less pronounced. The Pelikan M200 to M600 have lighter resin piston filler mechanisms. With the Pelikan M800 and M1000 I could feel the back heaviness. I think the fact that the brass filler P51 unit is brass conditions you to think automatically that it is heavy.

    The brass fillers being higher priced might be dragging the original filler prices up.

    I have noted that original fillers with sac installed are more expensive: $35 and up as opposed to $28 for the brass unit with sac installed. Higher shipping costs from shippers of original fillers make the gap wider for delivered prices. It makes me think that sending the pen off for restoration might be better, but I learned something about the 51 Vac by doing this. It's no longer the 51 from hell in my view.

    Having an expert restore the pen might be worthwhile, because the expert might notice any other issues with the pen, like cracks that might make the pen unrestorable.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to pajaro For This Useful Post:

    GING GING (October 28th, 2014)

  21. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    583
    Thanks
    43
    Thanked 237 Times in 116 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Which is why I bought a couple of brass filler units with sac installed. I knew I would be in over my head trying to replace the pellet cup
    Not sure why you thought you'd have to replace the pellet cup. Was it missing or badly damaged?

    ... and cementing the sac to the filler unit with a drop of cement, as the instructions that came with the brass unit said, to use a drop of cement to attach the sac.
    Vacumatic diaphragms should not be cemented to their filler units.

    I could have used the old filler units and attached the sac, but until I had the filler units out, I didn't have any idea what was involved. If the filler unit comes out intact, all you have to do is get the sac remnants out of the pen
    Not quite. You have to get the old pellet out as well.

    ... and cement the sac to the filler unit. I am guessing that knowledgable repairers don't use super glue, probably sac cement, whatever that is, but you can buy it.
    Knowledgeable repairers don't use anything.

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to kirchh For This Useful Post:

    LagNut (October 14th, 2014)

  23. #16
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post

    Not sure why you thought you'd have to replace the pellet cup. Was it missing or badly damaged?

    Ihe old filler unit on one of the pens had this come apart.
    ... and cementing the sac to the filler unit with a drop of cement, as the instructions that came with the brass unit said, to use a drop of cement to attach the sac.
    Vacumatic diaphragms should not be cemented to their filler units.
    The instructions with the brass filler unit said to use cement to attach the sac to the filler unit. I didn't use anything here.
    I could have used the old filler units and attached the sac, but until I had the filler units out, I didn't have any idea what was involved. If the filler unit comes out intact, all you have to do is get the sac remnants out of the pen
    Not quite. You have to get the old pellet out as well.

    Until I got the filler unit out, I had no idea.
    ... and cement the sac to the filler unit. I am guessing that knowledgable repairers don't use super glue, probably sac cement, whatever that is, but you can buy it.
    Knowledgeable repairers don't use anything.

    --Daniel
    OK. The instructions with both brass filler units did say to attach the sac to the filler unit with a bit of "cement." I wasn't sure what was meant, so I just put the sac on the end of the new filler unit, and it seemed to work OK.

  24. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    583
    Thanks
    43
    Thanked 237 Times in 116 Posts
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    OK. The instructions with both brass filler units did say to attach the sac to the filler unit with a bit of "cement." I wasn't sure what was meant, so I just put the sac on the end of the new filler unit, and it seemed to work OK.
    That's odd. Can you post a scan or photo of the instructions?

    --Daniel
    “Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
    ― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton

  25. #18
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    The brass filler units seemed to work OK with the demi sacs that came with them.

    I could have used the original filler units, the first one bu just buying a new sac and putting it on, the second one by fixing the unit with a new pellet cup and sac.

    I gave the first filer unit away to another member. This unit will need a sac.

    The second pen had problems. The hood had the point broken off. I took the hood off and found the threads were ruined, and the section was cracked on this dove gray 51. It wasn't going to go back together, so on the plus side I jave a new dove gray hood, a nice fine spare nib and breather tube, and a rhodium colored brass filler unit. I'll be able to repair the next of my three 51 Vacs that needs a resac, and there's a spare dove gray hood and fine nib and breather tube. From the experience and the help from everybody, I now have a much better idea of how to resac a 51 Vac.

    I found it easier to unscrew the filler unit than to get the hood off of any 51.

    Then, if the filler unit is intact, from all the help here, it appears all you have to do is positiion the new demi sac on the filler unit and screw it back in. When the filler unit seemed to get stuck going back in, I pushed slithtly on the filler rod to extend the sac and kept screwing it in until it was seated fully. Then it worked and didn't leak.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to pajaro For This Useful Post:

    GING GING (October 28th, 2014)

  27. #19
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    Quote Originally Posted by kirchh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    OK. The instructions with both brass filler units did say to attach the sac to the filler unit with a bit of "cement." I wasn't sure what was meant, so I just put the sac on the end of the new filler unit, and it seemed to work OK.
    That's odd. Can you post a scan or photo of the instructions?

    --Daniel
    OK, I'll take a picture of the instructions and post them later, after breakfast and taking meds. Thanks for all your clarifications and help. I hope this helps someone else to have the confidence to tackle this repair. It's not as daunting as I had thought.

  28. #20
    Senior Member pajaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    1,373
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 614 Times in 411 Posts
    Rep Power
    13

    Default Re: Parker 51 vac. Restore

    http://fpgeeks.com/forum/album.php?a...chmentid=14344

    If you click on the above link, you will get the picture of the instructions that came with the brass filler unit.

    I uploaded the pic to an album here, and the best I could figure was to post a link to it.
    Last edited by pajaro; October 13th, 2014 at 01:52 PM.

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pajaro For This Useful Post:

    GING GING (October 28th, 2014), LagNut (October 14th, 2014)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •