Vatican's ruffle. From Panama hats to yes, fountain pens.

[Ondina]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0J30YS20141119

And for a good cause, too.

[Tony Rex]

Got nothing against you or your post Ondina, but no thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a papist, and a serious one at that. Each year my Peter's Pence contribution alone is worth more than a really nice pen. I pray for his intentions and all that. And I'm also for the poor, but I will not be supporting his stupid media stunts, because they come at a great irony.

Poor calligraphists...

[Ondina]

Thank you for the link to your thoughts on the dismissal of 500 painters, calligraphers and other staff dedicated till now to make the personalized parchments for blessings and papal bulls. I'm afraid I personally find the measure reasonable and even positive for reasons that are long to explain here and that include both personal and practical considerations ( the very idea of them just shakes my concept of basic fairness). Having volunteered long at many levels with the sad reality homeless people is, I think free public showers are not a bad thing. Not ideal. But better than nothing. Specially in Rome, Santiago or cities where it always existed a long, millenarian tradition of pilgrims and shelters for them.

Just wanting to pass on the news of a chance of having a brand new gift to the Pope that otherhow would gather dust in what must be an immense warehouse in the Vatican. There is a list of the items, but I have not reviewed them, although I've read real Ecuador Panamas and some fountain pens are in it.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Got nothing against you or your post Ondina, but no thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a papist, and a serious one at that. Each year my Peter's Pence contribution alone is worth more than a really nice pen. I pray for his intentions and all that. And I'm also for the poor, but I will not be supporting his stupid media stunts, because they come at a great irony.

Poor calligraphists...

And what will happen to the calligraphists/phers?

[VertOlive]

I think the gorgeous Papal Blessing that we received from Pope Emeritus Benedict XlV for our marriage might have been done by such a calligrapher. It appears to be hand written and elaborately illustrated in a dozen colors. About 12" x 14".

[Tony Rex]

Got nothing against you or your post Ondina, but no thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a papist, and a serious one at that. Each year my Peter's Pence contribution alone is worth more than a really nice pen. I pray for his intentions and all that. And I'm also for the poor, but I will not be supporting his stupid media stunts, because they come at a great irony.

Poor calligraphists...

And what will happen to the calligraphists/phers?

Idk mate. But hey, at least they can have a free shower! I reckon this Pope has very little sense of the sacred. First, the calligraphers, next he'll probably rent out the Sistine chapel for events.

Wait. He did. For a Porche corporate party or something..

Personally, I wouldn't risk of committing simony by buying papal fountain pen with the bragging rights that come with it for "social justice". But that's just me.

This pontificate is more and more like that rubbish sixties book/flick "The Shoes of the Fisherman". Instead, may I suggest The Death of a Pope instead? Well, not literally. The novel. A much better read.

[Ondina]

Got nothing against you or your post Ondina, but no thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a papist, and a serious one at that. Each year my Peter's Pence contribution alone is worth more than a really nice pen. I pray for his intentions and all that. And I'm also for the poor, but I will not be supporting his stupid media stunts, because they come at a great irony.

Poor calligraphists...

And what will happen to the calligraphists/phers?

They are 500 calligraphers on the Vatican's payroll that will no longer live just out of making papal bulls and marriage blessings ( for those who can pay them). The more skilled will continue to offer their services as freelancers to the Vatican's library for restoration services. And the bulls and blessings will continue to be issued but not from the Vatican but from an internet site.

Yes, there will be more showers, not just one for the tourist. And, yes, right on St. Peter's square. I agree on the use of any premises. Most don't.

[Ondina]

The novel[/URL]. A much better read.

He and Christ had been called "comunist" before ( although he took it with a sense of humour. Probably the other guy did, too). So far only one was assassinated by his ideas. Or no?. Ioannes Paulus I had exactly the same and lasted just 33 days, but, he did live in the Papal's apartment surrounded by the Roman Curia. On the other hand, Franciscus programs his own agenda, lives surrounded by a multitude of students and pilgrims and even cooks for himself and others. Harder to get, perhaps?
Simony is trafficking for money in any spiritual thing. I'll devote some thoughts on selling all unwanted presents that, by law, must be piled up til the end of times to fund the act of charity described on John 13:1-17 vs. selling waivers on sins, crimes, or simply uncomfortable to follow precepts for a profit only, off course, to those who are able to pay for it. It looks Luke 18.22 versus a clear case of simony to me.

[Tony Rex]

The novel[/URL]. A much better read.

He and Christ had been called "comunist" before ( although he took it with a sense of humour. Probably the other guy did, too). So far only one was assassinated by his ideas. Or no?. Ioannes Paulus I had exactly the same and lasted just 33 days, but, he did live in the Papal's apartment surrounded by the Roman Curia. On the other hand, Franciscus programs his own agenda, lives surrounded by a multitude of students and pilgrims and even cooks for himself and others. Harder to get, perhaps?
Simony is trafficking for money in any spiritual thing. I'll devote some thoughts on selling all unwanted presents that, by law, must be piled up til the end of times to fund the act of charity described on John 13:1-17 vs. selling waivers on sins, crimes, or simply uncomfortable to follow precepts for a profit only, off course, to those who are able to pay for it. It looks Luke 18.22 versus a clear case of simony to me.

"Franciscus" the Saint, not this Jesuit poser, was rebuked by his peers for buying expensive chalice and vestment for liturgy, which money could've been spent feeding the poor. He said the poor was always with him, not so The Lord.

Judas also objected about the expensive perfume poured just to wash the Lords feet, right? It's all about priority.

But if buying Bergoglio's undies get you warm fuzzy feeling inside, who am I to judge?

[Ondina]

I think the gorgeous Papal Blessing that we received from Pope Emeritus Benedict XlV for our marriage might have been done by such a calligrapher. It appears to be hand written and elaborately illustrated in a dozen colors. About 12" x 14".

They can be requested here; http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/in...izioni_en.html The nuns and monks that are most of the calligrapher's body will keep on making them with ink, and pen on parchment. Just on commission instead of on payroll. They are indeed beautiful, and pieces of art. Not made with fountain pen inks, though, but with China's inks and real feather pens or dip nibs. Some people even supply their own so they can keep them, and later order a "plume dentelle" to collect and treasure. http://artimannias.blogspot.com.es/2...amentadas.html
From an artistic point of view, is interesting to see how the style and patters vary with each pontificate.

[Tony Rex]

And why is this on "Market Feedback" anyway?

[Jon Szanto]

I've suggested to Dan that this thread be moved to the proper sub-forum.

[Ondina]

I've suggested to Dan that this thread be moved to the proper sub-forum.

Thank you, my excuses if posting about the fountain pen ruffle here is not correct.

[Jon Szanto]

I've suggested to Dan that this thread be moved to the proper sub-forum.

Thank you, my excuses if posting about the fountain pen ruffle here is not correct.

No apology necessary. It just seems that, whatever the initial intent, the bulk of the discussion is centered on religion. We have made an area specifically for those topics, and it will be well at home there.

[Ondina]

I've suggested to Dan that this thread be moved to the proper sub-forum.

Thank you, my excuses if posting about the fountain pen ruffle here is not correct.

No apology necessary. It just seems that, whatever the initial intent, the bulk of the discussion is centered on religion. We have made an area specifically for those topics, and it will be well at home there.

So the original post for a third party sale/ruffle was OK to be posted here? ( asking for future reference).

[Jon Szanto]

So the original post for a third party sale/ruffle was OK to be posted here? ( asking for future reference).

Well, I'm just a forum member here, not running the place, so take this for what it is worth:

It seems misplaced to me.

First off, you'll note the description of the Market Feedback forum: "Share your experience, good or bad, with a company, restorer, or nibmeister. Read the rules before posting." And then you would want to read those rules that are mentioned.

What you posted was a news article about this Vatican auction, which did not even include any details about how to actually take part in it. It was a news item, and while it may have had a peripheral element about pens, the bulk of the information was about all the other details; as such, the discussion here, with the exception of the calligraphers, has focused on the religion and institutional (church) aspects.

Being that it seems so far from the point of the Market Feedback section, as well as the fact that our forum had decided to put topics of a religious or political nature in a special sub-forum, I believe it should have started there, and stayed there.

It isn't the end of the world, and it certainly isn't my call.

[Ondina]

It a third party ruffle, makes no difference if made by the Vatican, a Harvard fraternity or a school's fund raiser, at least to me. The Reuter's Agency article states the ruffle has been announced by posters around the City of the Vatican, which has also the short list of items and the prices of the tickets. Passing by lat week I saw there were a couple of fountain pens in it and the intent was just passing the information -I don't participate-.
I've read the rules of several subforums and none seems to fit well in this case. And as the OP I should have not tried to being courteous but but to cut out the drift the thread led to, as it has annoyed other members. This is not the first time I did publish internet finds or sales (right here), and still is not clear to me if there is an appropriate place. I appreciate the interest, though.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The novel[/URL]. A much better read.

He and Christ had been called "comunist" before ( although he took it with a sense of humour. Probably the other guy did, too). So far only one was assassinated by his ideas. Or no?. Ioannes Paulus I had exactly the same and lasted just 33 days, but, he did live in the Papal's apartment surrounded by the Roman Curia. On the other hand, Franciscus programs his own agenda, lives surrounded by a multitude of students and pilgrims and even cooks for himself and others. Harder to get, perhaps?
Simony is trafficking for money in any spiritual thing. I'll devote some thoughts on selling all unwanted presents that, by law, must be piled up til the end of times to fund the act of charity described on John 13:1-17 vs. selling waivers on sins, crimes, or simply uncomfortable to follow precepts for a profit only, off course, to those who are able to pay for it. It looks Luke 18.22 versus a clear case of simony to me.

"Franciscus" the Saint, not this Jesuit poser, was rebuked by his peers for buying expensive chalice and vestment for liturgy, which money could've been spent feeding the poor. He said the poor was always with him, not so The Lord.

Judas also objected about the expensive perfume poured just to wash the Lords feet, right? It's all about priority.

But if buying Bergoglio's undies get you warm fuzzy feeling inside, who am I to judge?

Didn't Christ Himself also say that? I can't think of the passage... 'The poor you will always have among you...'

[VertOlive]

"For those who can pay for them"--this sounds a bit like rhetoric.

We were not charged for the Papal Blessing mentioned above, anyone may request one.

[dannzeman]

Thread moved to Politics, Religion, and Society subforum.