Help please: Making nibs write; Brass shims.

[ainterne]

Hope this helps..... You can cut the shim with a scissors to straighten up the edge, but it can get sharp after cutting it, so spread the tines gently to get the shim in between the tines.

When I say don't scrape here, I mean don't run the shim down the gap without the shim being between the tines, or you will surely damage the nib.

You can bend the shim right and left, but not so much that's all. Its surprising how little you have to move the shim back and forth to make a difference. So little at a time is the best way.

I prefer initially prefer to turn the nib over and push the shoulders down while your thumb supports the nib under the feed, as has been suggested already.

Sorry about the quality of the pics, just doing this on my phone.

This is a nice link http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/?page_id=737

[mhosea]

Some thought about the geometry of nibs reveals that there are interconnections between various adjustments. You're working with a sheet of metal that has been bent. It's not actually possible to bend the tines the way that you're trying to when you use a shim to spread the tines. But the geometry of the nib adjusts to allow the shim to be there. Once you have a grasp of how the geometry changes based on various adjustments, then you can choose your strategy, but one thing you actually cannot do is just widen the gap at the tip. Something else always has to change to make that possible.

Here's something kind of fun. Make a "nib" out of card stock. You're going to make diagonal cuts on either side to form the tines, and you're going to make two cuts to create the nib slit with some width, to simulate the kerf from the saw blade. But just mark where you're going to cut. Don't actually cut it until you've rolled it so that it is curved like a nib. Then make the cuts. Now play with "adjustments" to narrow the gap. Watch what happens along the length of your "nib" when you press the tips together to get the taper that you want. Watch the wings, too. Play with adjustments. The most important one to play with is the one where you just try to pry the gap open wider by pulling horizontally at the tip. The cardboard nib won't stay in the configuration with the gap shut, but you can feel how it fights you when you try to spread the tines horizontally past a certain point. It won't fight you that much if the gap is closed at the tip, but you have to effect the reverse of the bending that occurs when you close the gap by pressing the tips together, and you're doing it from a position where the application of force is inefficient.

This idea of widening the gap by shoving something in it is wrong somehow. But it does work a little bit. It works because the geometry of the nib adjusts to having the shim there. Often the change is not lasting, and sometimes, when it is, something bad happens that does not happen with paper--the gap will narrow until the tines are sufficiently thin for them to bend horizontally, which leads to a gap that narrows to a point and then widens. Then the pen will not write for sure, not until you fix that, at least. Some folks like to pull the wings. Depending on the precise geometry of the nib, this may not be a lot different than just pushing the tines up away from the feed while pressing down at the breather hole, but pulling on the wings does have one great virtue: it's not easy to over-do it that way (whereas it is with a more direct approach). Overdoing it often means removing the nib to fix the new problem.

[ainterne]

Some thought about the geometry of nibs reveals that there are interconnections between various adjustments. You're working with a sheet of metal that has been bent. It's not actually possible to bend the tines the way that you're trying to when you use a shim to spread the tines. But the geometry of the nib adjusts to allow the shim to be there. Once you have a grasp of how the geometry changes based on various adjustments, then you can choose your strategy, but one thing you actually cannot do is just widen the gap at the tip. Something else always has to change to make that possible.

Here's something kind of fun. Make a "nib" out of card stock. You're going to make diagonal cuts on either side to form the tines, and you're going to make two cuts to create the nib slit with some width, to simulate the kerf from the saw blade. But just mark where you're going to cut. Don't actually cut it until you've rolled it so that it is curved like a nib. Then make the cuts. Now play with "adjustments" to narrow the gap. Watch what happens along the length of your "nib" when you press the tips together to get the taper that you want. Watch the wings, too. Play with adjustments. The most important one to play with is the one where you just try to pry the gap open wider by pulling horizontally at the tip. The cardboard nib won't stay in the configuration with the gap shut, but you can feel how it fights you when you try to spread the tines horizontally past a certain point. It won't fight you that much if the gap is closed at the tip, but you have to effect the reverse of the bending that occurs when you close the gap by pressing the tips together, and you're doing it from a position where the application of force is inefficient.

This idea of widening the gap by shoving something in it is wrong somehow. But it does work a little bit. It works because the geometry of the nib adjusts to having the shim there. Often the change is not lasting, and sometimes, when it is, something bad happens that does not happen with paper--the gap will narrow until the tines are sufficiently thin for them to bend horizontally, which leads to a gap that narrows to a point and then widens. Then the pen will not write for sure, not until you fix that, at least. Some folks like to pull the wings. Depending on the precise geometry of the nib, this may not be a lot different than just pushing the tines up away from the feed while pressing down at the breather hole, but pulling on the wings does have one great virtue: it's not easy to over-do it that way (whereas it is with a more direct approach). Overdoing it often means removing the nib to fix the new problem.

Great suggestion.... I have tried many times to make nibs out of the shims for fun. I haven't tried card before. It's amazing how difficult it is at first because of the different effects that happen even when you cut to make the tines and how they react. I finally figured out how to do it and then put them in my nib holder and amazingly enough I could write with them. When I say write, I mean with virtually no pressure and very slowly, not real writing...lol... With regards to your comments above, once the nib is out and you put the shim just below the breather hole and ease the tines apart, there will be a slight increase in the gap. The biggest problem I see though is that for many pens I have seen the radius of the nib does not exactly match the radius of the section and have been coaxed in. Once the adjustment of the tines has been made then the nib being flexed (coaxed) back into the section on the feed changes everything that's been done. So it can take multiple attempts to get the nib and feed set correctly for max flow. The very fact that the nib has been coaxed into the section is as you know a big reason for cracked nibs and so personally I don't like repeatedly taking them in and out unless the nib is correct for the section.

Below my main point was not damaging the nib. Many people told me when I started that it was an expensive hobby to get into because of all the mistakes that would be made learning how to work with the materials. I tried very hard no to make those mistakes by going very slowly and thinking hard about what might happen when I did something. I have not made mistakes from doing the obvious things, but I have messed up by dropping sections and cracking off the nipple for example... I just hate that. I have however seen many nibs that have been butchered and people have tried to put abrasive paper in between the tines in the hope of removing material.
The problem is that in most cases they curve the material on the inside edges of the nib and then it's pretty much a goner....

I hardly ever buy new nibs unless they are dip nibs. With those there is always a coating on the nib and it has to be removed before he nib will work. So I put a lighter flame under the nib for a few seconds on the top and bottom of the tines and that normally does the trick....... Is it the same on Pen nibs? Do they come with any protective coating, other than a smear of oil or similar? I only buy old nibs so I have never really looked into it.

[Annie]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

[Farmboy]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

[Jon Szanto]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

Oh, Cob, don't be a scaredy-cat!

[gweddig]

I think that should be the banner for the 2015 show.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I like this approach, you have the priorities in the correct order: drink, eat, play pens. A few of us (Jon and I for example) would substitute Scotch for the beer and reorder a bit making it drink, eat, drink, fix nibs, drink, tell stories and drink. It would be almost like a pen show if you manage to lose your voice.

I have to say that experience tells me that it is better to play with pens before tackling the Scotch!

Cob

Oh, Cob, don't be a scaredy-cat!

Wonderful picture Jon.

It is, as I am sure many will agree, surprisingly easy to cock something up on a fountain pen, even when entirely sober. The Scotch (I received a very nice bottle as a Xmas present...) simply serves to make one even less risk-averse!

Rgds
Cob

[Farmboy]

More like a little 'medicine' to steady your hands.

[Cob]

More like a little 'medicine' to steady your hands.

Just popped a slug into my coffee; the perfect thing for a horrid, dark, damp, English, January morning!

Cob

[Hawk]

If there is an auto parts store near you, pick up a spark plug gapping tool.

It's not recommended to use the steel feeler gauges for nib flossing. Steel is much harder than gold and will scratch the gap between the tines. Either use brass feeler gauges or brass shim material.


As for spark plugs, you should use round gauges made from steel. You can't ensure a proper gap with the flat gauges and the flats of the electrodes.

I totally argee. The feeler gages are for setting points on a distributer or other machining uses.

[Hawk]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

Darn, I would like to join you for your meeting but it would be an expensive, long distance venture. Working on nibs would be fun also.

[Chrissy]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I have been trying to get to a meeting. It's just that it's so awkward being on a Saturday, and being 2 hours journey away from where I live.

[Cob]

Realise I am late to the party on this one, however... Don't attack it with card, brass shim, your favourite lippy, a nail file, carving knife or scalpel. Just bring it along to the next London pen meet and we can all drink beer, eat loads and maybe fix it.

I have been trying to get to a meeting. It's just that it's so awkward being on a Saturday, and being 2 hours journey away from where I live.

Come along now! It takes me two hours - actually a little more!

Cob

[Chrissy]

Come along now! It takes me two hours - actually a little more!

Cob

Yes, I rounded down. Two hours would be the very minimum for me on a perfect, no delay journey. I wish they were on Sundays.

[ac12]

Call a Pen Posse.
Make it a date and place that is convenient for you and others, and go for it.