Can We have a Civil Discussion about Abortion?

[kazoolaw]

Perhaps all the Evangelicals ....

And, since many evangelicals....

No more sending the 14 year old odd...

I agree, “praise the lord”!!

Chuck, how do you define "Evangelicals?" Are they the same as, or different from, "evangelicals?" Are you either?

Who is the "odd?"

And how do you relate your post to the constitutional issues litigated in Dobbs?

[dneal]

Here's a link to the Dobbs decision, via CNN.

[Chuck Naill]

Perhaps all the Evangelicals ....

And, since many evangelicals....

No more sending the 14 year old odd...

I agree, “praise the lord”!!

Chuck, how do you define "Evangelicals?" Are they the same as, or different from, "evangelicals?" Are you either?

Who is the "odd?"

And how do you relate your post to the constitutional issues litigated in Dobbs?

I’m on my iPhone so, I cannot edit. Odd should be old.

Evangelicals are a large group of denominations and non denominations that got their political perspectives in the 1970’s. Some are Biblicallly literate and some are not. They tend to follow a male person who they consider “the man of God” . They put Reagan, both George’s and Trump in office.

Like I’ve said, I am pro life, but also pro informed consent, pro adoption, pro mother, pro father, pro baby…..

I’m thinking the SCOTUS wanted to pass the buck.

That said, I’f people are pro life, it’s time to pull-up up your boots and get with the work of helping and raising. It is no enough to say, “be warmed and filled”. Hopefully you will get it.

[Bold2013]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4_rXOkBSOM

Babylon bee. Here is what you need to know regarding this ruling.

[TSherbs]

Well, there will be some interesting marches that I will attend this summer. I look forward to them. My wife is with a group of ten other women planning activism now.

Susan Collins is lucky she is not having to defend her seat this year.

[Bold2013]

Just keep it peaceful unlike summer 2020 and Jan 6th.

[TSherbs]

Just keep it peaceful unlike summer 2020 and Jan 6th.

The women are not likely organizing violence. That is mostly a male activity.

[Linger]

Wow.

In 1932 the NSDAP got a little over 37% of the German votes in what could be seen as the last free election.

I learn from CNN (yeah I know, biased) that a poll conducted after leaking of the draft SC opinion showed that only 36% of US voters supported overturning Roe.

Totally unrelated, but strikingly similar: a noticeable minority got what they wanted in a functioning democracy, determining the fate of the vast majority. With detrimental effect.

As of this week, y’all can carry concealed weapons everywhere, and your daughters, sisters, mothers and wives have no right over their own body anymore.

All this based on a document over 200 years old.

Who blames the Taliban to be backwards? A tribal, violent, suppressing, misogynistic society?

I am scared. We n e e d the USA to give the right example in a world that is sliding into totalitarian, religious or otherwise ideologically driven, regimes. And your GOP is failing us all. How the @#$& can any intelligent human being vote for this bunch of hypocrite, criminal, power-toting bunch of idiots is beyond me.

I also apologize. It is not up to me (not a US citizen or resident) to criticize or generalize. Or to use strong language. I am just so disappointed in myself, in my utterly naive belief that free democratic western societies were the way forward. They are not. We are degenerating back to the dark ages.

[TSherbs]

The US, for various structural reasons, has been locked in a minority-majority situation for some time. This is why, fundamentally, that January 6th happened.

[Bold2013]

Wow.

In 1932 the NSDAP got a little over 37% of the German votes in what could be seen as the last free election.

I learn from CNN (yeah I know, biased) that a poll conducted after leaking of the draft SC opinion showed that only 36% of US voters supported overturning Roe.

Totally unrelated, but strikingly similar: a noticeable minority got what they wanted in a functioning democracy, determining the fate of the vast majority. With detrimental effect.

As of this week, y’all can carry concealed weapons everywhere, and your daughters, sisters, mothers and wives have no right over their own body anymore.

All this based on a document over 200 years old.

Who blames the Taliban to be backwards? A tribal, violent, suppressing, misogynistic society?

I am scared. We n e e d the USA to give the right example in a world that is sliding into totalitarian, religious or otherwise ideologically driven, regimes. And your GOP is failing us all. How the @#$& can any intelligent human being vote for this bunch of hypocrite, criminal, power-toting bunch of idiots is beyond me.

I also apologize. It is not up to me (not a US citizen or resident) to criticize or generalize. Or to use strong language. I am just so disappointed in myself, in my utterly naive belief that free democratic western societies were the way forward. They are not. We are degenerating back to the dark ages.

I appreciate the response. Just remember that pro life people are fighting dehumanization we are not the dehumanizers like those German and Taliban groups you mentioned.

[dneal]

Totally unrelated, but strikingly similar: a noticeable minority got what they wanted in a functioning democracy, determining the fate of the vast majority. With detrimental effect.

The majority of States had abortion laws enacted by the majority of legislators which were elected by a majority of voters. A minority (the Supreme Court) created a "right" to abortion through shaky reasoning (admitted by liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg).

Some States (in the Dobbs case, Mississippi), through their majority of legislators, elected by a majority of voters again attempted to write "common sense abortion reforms". The Supreme Court agreed, and overturned Roe. The decision is now left to each State, like it was before Roe.

You can still get an abortion in Mississippi. You just need to do it within the first 15 weeks.

As of this week, y’all can carry concealed weapons everywhere, and your daughters, sisters, mothers and wives have no right over their own body anymore.

Not as of this week, and not everywhere.

The case you are probably referring to is the Bruen decision, where State laws proved so onerous to essentially forbid exercise of the 2nd Amendment as decided in Heller and McDonald.

It remains illegal to carry firearms in most federal buildings (like post offices) schools, and (depending on State laws) places where property owners forbid it.

I welcome interest in our laws from non-citizens, and I am similarly interested in legal peculiarities in other countries. Before you express such a strong opinion though, you might take the time to discern the facts. Beginning with an allusion to Nazi Germany is, frankly, asinine.

[Linger]

Bold2013: i apologize, i do appreciate that sincere pro-life devotees believe in what they preach (pun not really intended but still), and with good intentions, i just totally and wholeheartedly disagree, but that dies not give me free pass to insult.

Dneal: i also apologize, the comparison is ill advised, you are right, but so similar: a little over 35% in both cases. I know your stance on electoral vote over popular vote - and again i wholeheartedly disagree. The mentioned poll (ok, a poll, but i assume a representative one) showed that the majority of your citizens do not agree to what the SC just overturned. And with respect to your gun laws, well, i am a licensed gun owner in NL (for hunting) and i adhere to our extremely strict rules. I can lose my hunting license even if i violate our traffic laws. And i dont care. I happily comply. Gun ownership should be the regulated exception, and not the free-for-all rule. Guns are simply way to dangerous.

[Linger]

Oh, and an even more lame apology: it has been a tiring week, and busy workday today, so today TGIF i am writing this with a glass of wine in my belly and another one in my hand…that should make me more mellow in words and opinions, but it didnt.

[Jon Szanto]

Just keep it peaceful unlike summer 2020 and Jan 6th.

No.

[Chip]

The rich, aristocratic framers of the US Constitution were deathly afraid of pure democracy, which they thought of as mob rule. So they came up with countermeasures, such as having two senators for each state (regardless of population). Further anti-democratic measures were the electoral college and the Senate filibuster (adopted to keep power in the hands of the racist, post-Confederate South).

These countermeasures are largely responsible for the disproportionate influence of rural right-wing voters on national issues, where 30% or so effectively cancels the will of the majority.

Bluntly put, the pigs are a minority, but they rule the farm.

[TSherbs]

Bold2013: i apologize, i do appreciate that sincere pro-life devotees believe in what they preach (pun not really intended but still), and with good intentions, i just totally and wholeheartedly disagree, but that dies not give me free pass to insult.

Dneal: i also apologize, the comparison is ill advised, you are right, but so similar: a little over 35% in both cases. I know your stance on electoral vote over popular vote - and again i wholeheartedly disagree. The mentioned poll (ok, a poll, but i assume a representative one) showed that the majority of your citizens do not agree to what the SC just overturned. And with respect to your gun laws, well, i am a licensed gun owner in NL (for hunting) and i adhere to our extremely strict rules. I can lose my hunting license even if i violate our traffic laws. And i dont care. I happily comply. Gun ownership should be the regulated exception, and not the free-for-all rule. Guns are simply way to dangerous.

Yeah, one of the unfortunate results of our federal "electoral college" is that a party can actually lose the overall popular vote (which counts for nothing in the US result) but still win the election according to the opportionment of electors (Bush 2000, Trump 2016). Since 1988, the only GOP president to win a majority of the national vote was George W Bush in his second term. Otherwise, the Democratic candidate always gets more votes nationally, the question is simply whether the lead is large enough to overcome the counterweight of the Electoral College.

And then when that President gets three Supreme Court appointments (he should have only had two, but his party cheated Obama out of one of his appointments) in his single term, you end up with an over-weighted legal representation of a point of view not supported by the majority of the population.

QED

[TSherbs]

The rich, aristocratic framers of the US Constitution were deathly afraid of pure democracy, which they thought of as mob rule. So they came up with countermeasures, such as having two senators for each state (regardless of population). Further anti-democratic measures were the electoral college and the Senate filibuster (adopted to keep power in the hands of the racist, post-Confederate South).

These countermeasures are largely responsible for the disproportionate influence of rural right-wing voters on national issues, where 30% or so effectively cancels the will of the majority.

Bluntly put, the pigs are a minority, but they rule the farm.

word

[Bold2013]

Godwin’s rule 2.0

[kazoolaw]

The rich, aristocratic framers of the US Constitution were deathly afraid of pure democracy, which they thought of as mob rule. So they came up with countermeasures, such as having two senators for each state (regardless of population). Further anti-democratic measures were the electoral college and the Senate filibuster (adopted to keep power in the hands of the racist, post-Confederate South).

These countermeasures are largely responsible for the disproportionate influence of rural right-wing voters on national issues, where 30% or so effectively cancels the will of the majority.

Bluntly put, the pigs are a minority, but they rule the farm.

To be clear then, if the voters in your state approve banning abortion you're good with the will of the people.

[Chuck Naill]

When @bold announces he’s housing pregnant girls or is adopting a sons child, I’ll know he is prO life. Until then, he has no business defining pro life.