AzJon (May 25th, 2022), Jon Szanto (May 25th, 2022)
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
Jon Szanto (May 25th, 2022), TSherbs (May 26th, 2022)
I respectfully disagree. If he's so tough to manage, how are the other companies handling him? What safety, as long as he provides an acceptable product? I don't see much change in him, only a sudden immersion into the eye of (what I see as) a misguided hurricane.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
TSherbs (May 26th, 2022)
To me, that falls short of justifying dropping his product line. It shows a lack of willingness to support a long-time acquaintance that's being mislabeled and who fails to properly defend himself. Why not just post that note on their site explaining why they will continue to sell Noodlers?
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
SlowMovingTarget (May 26th, 2022), TSherbs (May 26th, 2022)
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
Jon Szanto (May 25th, 2022)
JonS - no one is forcing you to post on this thread. I've known many people who likely wouldn't have joined the FP community if not for Nathan. Some don't think of him as a PIA... for all we know, there may be those that consider us PIAs.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
Jon Szanto (May 25th, 2022), TSherbs (May 26th, 2022)
I started this thread, and, simply as a reminder, I own and enjoy using Noodler's inks and pens. I certainly don't want his company to go under or for him to choose to shutter. But what I want and what happens in a market with much freedom of consumer and manufacturer and distributor choice are not always in conjunction.
Jon Szanto (May 26th, 2022), Yazeh (May 26th, 2022)
His "quirks" or cantankerous-ness or even personal thoughts about religion or race or whatever aren't, in my review, the issue. The problem became his repeating of anti-Semitic tropes in his labeling after the problem was brought to his attention.
Then the scope widened to include a critique of the fetishization of Native tribal names (or foreign groups) for profit. That not all distributors have a problem with this today, and none did in the past,b does not mean that these criticisms aren't valid. *Our* understanding of these issues evolves as the minds at the forefront bring new thinking to light. It's kind of how cultural change works. The rest of us read the thinking and, over time, the ideas either stick or they don't.
AzJon (May 26th, 2022), Jon Szanto (May 26th, 2022), Lloyd (May 26th, 2022), PenInvestigations (May 26th, 2022), Yazeh (May 26th, 2022)
Lloyd (May 26th, 2022)
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
eachan (May 27th, 2022), Jon Szanto (May 26th, 2022), manoeuver (May 26th, 2022), TSherbs (May 27th, 2022), Yazeh (May 27th, 2022)
No kidding, me too - I *never* go there. In fact, one of the last things I asked (and got) Eric to do, after much discussion on the forum, was to make it so the posts from that sub-forum DO NOT appear in the "What's New" stuff. I really do prefer to not see what is happening there.
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
AzJon (May 27th, 2022), eachan (May 27th, 2022), jeffj (May 26th, 2022), Lloyd (May 26th, 2022), manoeuver (May 26th, 2022), PenInvestigations (June 5th, 2022), SlowMovingTarget (May 26th, 2022), Stands on Feet (May 26th, 2022), TSherbs (May 27th, 2022), Yazeh (May 27th, 2022)
Many of Nathan's videos have been taken down because they were flagged by people who didn't like his politics. This includes the one where he shot a Charlie pen out of rifle to demonstrate its durability. There seems to have been an extended campaign to "get" him.
Contesting flagged content must be done one video at a time, and then you must release the video again. The process can take several days for each video.
That video of Nathan objecting to the antisemitic characterization was from before this latest kerfluffle blew up on Reddit by at least a few weeks.
Last edited by SlowMovingTarget; May 26th, 2022 at 04:12 PM.
"The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here..." -- Abraham Lincoln, 1863
AzJon (May 27th, 2022)
"The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here..." -- Abraham Lincoln, 1863
I remember the shotgun video. The comments, iirc, were mostly voicing distaste at shooting a pen out of a shotgun, but as a questionably smart/safe thing to do, but also asking why he would bother. I recall him also running over that same pen with his truck, I think.
Nathan's "politics" come down to constantly needing to play the victim. If he can't moan about The Powers That BeŽ out to crush him and all Americans, he has nothing to really talk about. He definitely still has videos up with stronger political commentary than the shotgun video and, given this recent hissy-fit of relabeling all of his inks, I bet he took them down himself or made them either hidden or private out of spite in the comments.
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