What's with flamboyant Eric, The-Smooth-Talker

[alc3261]

So, can someone explain to me how this thread go from someone moaning about Eric's dress and speech, to the meaning of life and everything in it.

Because the answer is 42.

That too made me laugh out loud. I just love nonsense replies, however is the answer really 42?

This refers the "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" a well known book, radio and TV series in the UK in which the answer to the question "What is the meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything" posed to a massive super computer was "42"

[mhosea]

This seems like a good opportunity to ramble. Probably a good idea to skip this post unless you're feeling a little indulgent.

Ah, truth! I wish I knew what that word really meant. I instinctively believe that there is "truth", but I'm pretty sure this is faith talking, not reason.

At one time my intention was to become what is known as a "pure" mathematician. I was attracted to mathematics initially because it seemed to present a certain absoluteness of "truth" that physics and chemistry lacked. A theory in physics or chemistry might be accepted for a century and then replaced. After being taught how to calculate something in chemistry class, I had the temerity to ask the professor if this was what was really going on. His answer was honest, but it hinted at the descriptive nature of the science rather than its truth. I did not like chemistry very much, and this sealed the deal for me. The same would happen in physics, I was sure, but it did not seem possible in mathematics. Either something was provable, and therefore true, I thought, or false. Eventually I learned enough mathematics to realize that the "truth" in mathematics is, at best, taken relative to the axioms. Instead of something innate in the universe, axiomatic mathematics is a construct of humanity. It is a useful construct, no doubt. There is some passing relationship to "truth", perhaps, but the relationship is not one of which one could say that mathematics is a path to discovering the truth in the Platonic sense. It is, rather, a path to discovering the consequences of a set of assumptions when the set of assumptions contains no contradictions. Mathematics cannot take you anywhere you want to go. It is like the subway system. It will take you anywhere the subway goes. Fortunately, a small set of axioms leads to an enormous subway, so even pure mathematicians don't get bored (with their own work, at least).

So, with that setup, I am not really sure what to make of the idea that there are "natural rights". As a mathematician, I tend to take the "self evident truths" of the Declaration of Independence as a statement of axioms. "We hold these truths to be self-evident" --> "This is where we be comin' from." There is no formal requirement that an axiom be "true", as the concept of "truth" outside of the system isn't formally defined. But common sense dictates that if the resulting system is to be somehow useful for calculating things in the "real world", the axioms ought at least to seem "self-evident".

I quite agree at any rate that a "right" is something that must be defended, as any right might be infringed. This concept is widely misunderstood in the US, where many seem to think that their "rights" are a talisman protecting them from harm when they do anything they have a "right" to do.

[TSherbs]

Ha ha! These old laws are often entertaining.

The meaning of the word "race" seems to have modified over the years. I realise given the recent successes of the SNP I might just be on thin ice, but as a British subject (I am not a "citizen" even though it says so on my passport) I see no "racial" difference concerning Englishmen and Scotsmen.

And naturally, being fortunate to live in what is still ostensibly a free country I accept every Scot's right to disagree!

Many of today's problems may be attributed to a overweening willingness on the part of many to be offended; people are far too easily offended. Too much sense of humour failure generally.

Cob

Race is a meaningless concept in every sense, not just across the Great Britain, but across the entire world.

[TSherbs]

"So, can someone explain to me how this thread go from someone moaning about Eric's dress and speech, to the meaning of life and everything in it. "



Because it is F P Geeks and Eric allows members to have the freedom to say what they feel even if it is about him

and because a thread with a gossipy tone about someone not in the conversation was bound to dissipate from embarrassment or lack of substance

and so some folks found some more interesting material about larger questions (and answers) in life

(like 42)

[Neo]

"So, can someone explain to me how this thread go from someone moaning about Eric's dress and speech, to the meaning of life and everything in it. "



Because it is F P Geeks and Eric allows members to have the freedom to say what they feel even if it is about him

and because a thread with a gossipy tone about someone not in the conversation was bound to dissipate from embarrassment or lack of substance

and so some folks found some more interesting material about larger questions (and answers) in life

(like 42)

Or as Eleanor Roosevelt said, " Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

[TSherbs]

"So, can someone explain to me how this thread go from someone moaning about Eric's dress and speech, to the meaning of life and everything in it. "



Because it is F P Geeks and Eric allows members to have the freedom to say what they feel even if it is about him

and because a thread with a gossipy tone about someone not in the conversation was bound to dissipate from embarrassment or lack of substance

and so some folks found some more interesting material about larger questions (and answers) in life

(like 42)

Or as Eleanor Roosevelt said, " Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

That's fabulous! Thanks for sharing.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

DELETED

[Wile E Coyote]

This seems like a good opportunity to ramble. Probably a good idea to skip this post unless you're feeling a little indulgent.

Ah, truth! I wish I knew what that word really meant. I instinctively believe that there is "truth", but I'm pretty sure this is faith talking, not reason.

At one time my intention was to become what is known as a "pure" mathematician. I was attracted to mathematics initially because it seemed to present a certain absoluteness of "truth" that physics and chemistry lacked. A theory in physics or chemistry might be accepted for a century and then replaced. After being taught how to calculate something in chemistry class, I had the temerity to ask the professor if this was what was really going on. His answer was honest, but it hinted at the descriptive nature of the science rather than its truth. I did not like chemistry very much, and this sealed the deal for me. The same would happen in physics, I was sure, but it did not seem possible in mathematics. Either something was provable, and therefore true, I thought, or false. Eventually I learned enough mathematics to realize that the "truth" in mathematics is, at best, taken relative to the axioms. Instead of something innate in the universe, axiomatic mathematics is a construct of humanity. It is a useful construct, no doubt. There is some passing relationship to "truth", perhaps, but the relationship is not one of which one could say that mathematics is a path to discovering the truth in the Platonic sense. It is, rather, a path to discovering the consequences of a set of assumptions when the set of assumptions contains no contradictions. Mathematics cannot take you anywhere you want to go. It is like the subway system. It will take you anywhere the subway goes. Fortunately, a small set of axioms leads to an enormous subway, so even pure mathematicians don't get bored (with their own work, at least).

So, with that setup, I am not really sure what to make of the idea that there are "natural rights". As a mathematician, I tend to take the "self evident truths" of the Declaration of Independence as a statement of axioms. "We hold these truths to be self-evident" --> "This is where we be comin' from." There is no formal requirement that an axiom be "true", as the concept of "truth" outside of the system isn't formally defined. But common sense dictates that if the resulting system is to be somehow useful for calculating things in the "real world", the axioms ought at least to seem "self-evident".

I quite agree at any rate that a "right" is something that must be defended, as any right might be infringed. This concept is widely misunderstood in the US, where many seem to think that their "rights" are a talisman protecting them from harm when they do anything they have a "right" to do.

Damn mathematicians never carry a towel.

(edited to fix what I didn't fix the first time)

[mhosea]

Damn mathematicians, never carry a towel.

:lol: I'm not quite sure how to parse that, as the comma throws me for a loop. However, tossing the comma and vis-a-vis not being pre-equipped with a towel (in case of encountering the ravenous bugblatter beast of traal), you did remind me of this joke.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jokes/read/80430977/

[Wile E Coyote]

Damn mathematicians, never carry a towel.

:lol: I'm not quite sure how to parse that, as the comma throws me for a loop. However, tossing the comma and vis-a-vis not being pre-equipped with a towel (in case of encountering the ravenous bugblatter beast of traal), you did remind me of this joke.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jokes/read/80430977/

I guess that's what happens when you edit your post and don't remove extraneous punctuation.

But how did you know about the engineer? Was it the grammar or the reference?

[mhosea]

But how did you know about the engineer? Was it the grammar or the reference?

I didn't. The joke is isomorphic (more math humor) to one where the smart guys are mathematicians. Nobody thinks that version is funny, though.

[dneal]

I think that perhaps this conversation is now pretty much crossing the boundary of my ability to understand it or make a coherent statement on it. So I may bow out about here before I sound any more foolish than I already have.

Foolish? Hardly.

I think that your logic is absolutely sound, so please don't bow out; I doubt that anyone hereabouts has felt that you have sounded "foolish."

Cob

I also find it to be a compelling argument, even though I have taken the opposing stance.

[Quantum Sailor]

And those aren't different human perceptions and constructs being overlaid? Our cognitive functions assign values to things, whether the concept of "fight" or the notion of natural right or intrinsic value.
Perhaps the earthworm or lion are unaware of these concepts, but does that mean they don't exist? Maybe they don't, or maybe there are Platonic "forms" that only can be recognized by intellect. If humans ceased to exist, would "triangles" or "two" also cease to exist?

Not really, on all points. Concepts are not required. "Triangles" or "two" would indeed, on the extinction of humankind, cease to exist as concepts, if not in fact. Labels are not a requirement of existence. Thus the concept of "fight" that I use is merely as a convenient means to discuss the subject in a way we can understand rather than a thing in and of itself. Personally, and without any way of proving it, I doubt any other creature on this world conceptualises its own existence as we do. Even the removal of all language or other means of communication does not change the fact of existence, of life.

And let's take this: Our cognitive functions assign values to things, whether the concept of "fight" or the notion of natural right or intrinsic value So what? These values are not real. They have no intrinsic meaning. They are only our way of trying to understand the world around us. Take them away and the world continues just as before... only more quietly.


EDIT: I should offer an apology and a disclaimer somewhat belatedly. I have no formal education, much of what I write is instinctual. Thus I am ever aware that I may, indeed probably am, very much mistaken in most of this. Please understand this before taking me to task too harshly.

I have a lot of formal education and the main thing I've learned from it is that while it serves a purpose, it does not really serve the purpose one might think it does. Much of my experience with formal education has been little in the way of learning how to reason and a lot more of learning how to recite what pleases. There are a great deal of smart people in the world who do great things at universities, however many of the real gems of advancement and thought processes did not come from universities.

I suppose I'll wind up my thought before I ramble on too much by saying education is what you make of it, and many who have had formal education did not make much of it, so I wouldn't place it that highly until you verify those with it actually got something out of it.

There is a story, I have no idea if it's true but wouldn't surprise me, that Feynman realized he couldn't learn Quantum Mechanics from the teachers and textbooks available to him at the time so he just decided to do it all himself and it took him around 5 years.

[View from the Loft]

So, can someone explain to me how this thread go from someone moaning about Eric's dress and speech, to the meaning of life and everything in it.

Because the answer is 42.

That too made me laugh out loud. I just love nonsense replies, however is the answer really 42?

ALC3261 has explained the reference, but I just couldn't resist throwing this one in, given the fairly deep discussion that was/is taking place.

I'm glad that I made you laugh. Humour makes the day much more pleasant, and is often in short supply. For most of us, pens, inks and paper are a hobby and should therefore be a source of enjoyment.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Troll: mission accomplished.

[Scrawler]

Troll: mission accomplished.

It cannot be considered accomplished until someone posts a picture of a kitten.

[Farmboy]

I'm bringing Jon a clip-on bow tie to wear ...

[Jon Szanto]

I'm bringing Jon a clip-on bow tie to wear ...

I know where I'm going to clip it, too.

[Annie]

All this has me wondering if Cob is going to be wearing a kilt to the next geek gathering.

[RuiFromUK]

All this has me wondering if Cob is going to be wearing a kilt to the next geek gathering.

Don't forget the bowtie!