This is my first attemptImageUploadedByTapatalk1411869099.049868.jpg
This is my first attemptImageUploadedByTapatalk1411869099.049868.jpg
I generally try to avoid soaking the filler. The different metals have favorable half-cell potentials to promote corrosion.
But sometimes you do need to get them wet.
LagNut (October 14th, 2014)
Farmboy, what is the filler? No I'm not be funny. I really don't know what the filler is
The filler unit is the spring loaded rod at the back end of the pen. It is threaded into the barrel with a retaining nut and is made of a celluloid rod, and usually an aluminum ferrule and steel spring. The metal parts will corrode easily. If you are blessed with a carbon steel spring, it can go to junk quickly.
Todd
The first time I did one of these, quite recently, I found that the filler unit unscrewed from the barrel using some rubber gripping material to grip the exposed threads on the filler unit and just unscrewing it. There is no sealant used on the threads. To make it easy, I bought a brass filler unit with the sac installed. This is not cheap, about $30. It would have been less expensive to resac the old filler unit, which is still good. I just screwed the new filler unit into the barrel. Apparently when it stops threading into the barrel it forms a seal. I filled the pen and it works, no leaks. I didn't disassemble the front end of the pen.
What I did do was to use shellac on the filler unit threads. Warned that this was not recommended, I removed the filler unit and used alcohol on a Q-tip to remove the shellac from the filler and from the barrel threads. Then I screwed the filler unit back in. I used the rubber gripping material to snug it. The pen works fine. I can't believe how simple this was.
EDIT: I forgot to put in that I used a pic to remove old sac material from the barrel before installing the new filler unit.
Last edited by pajaro; September 28th, 2014 at 08:41 AM.
I think this varies. I've done a few, and in most of mine found some sort of sealant used on those filler unit threads. I even had one where the mystery sealant wasn't shellac, so it was murder to remove. A tiny bit of shellac is sometimes necessary to keep the filler unit from unscrewing with the blind cap, which may account for the variation. Also these have been around for a lot of years and may have been repaired in the past.
Where did you find a brass filler unit with sac, may I ask?
I found the brass filler unit with sac installed on ebay and also on FPN classifieds, jaxxon is the seller.
I posted that I had used a miniscule dab of shellac on the filler threads and the response was never do it, from FPN. However, you are correct to assess each pen individually for whether sealant might be needed. On two I have done it wasn't, but the first pen worked OK with a very small amount of sealant, just enough to keep the filler from unscrewing with the blind cap, as you point out. It's a judgement call, and if you are doing the repair, you make the call.
There are Vac filler removal tools, things you screw onto the exposed threads and use to unscrew the filler. I think the main advantage is leverage the tool gives, a mechanical advantage. I think they are forty or fifty bucks. You have to expect to do a number of vac filler resacs to make it worth it. Unscrewing the filler with the rubber grip aid did hurt my fingers, but I am a cheapskate. For forty or fifty bucks I could buy another pen to add to the couple of hundred I already have and leave me wondering what pen to use next.
Doing these sac R&Rs was more fun than I would have thought, and I think I now like the 51 Vacs as much as the aeros.
Laura N (September 28th, 2014)
I had the same reaction. I gained so much appreciation for the vac filler -- it's a really great mechanism, which I didn't appreciate fully until I saw it up close.
I did the sac replacements. I have to say those are challenging. Even some experienced guys I know said they mess it up every once in a while. Or maybe they were trying to make me feel better.
GING GING (October 13th, 2014)
Which is why I bought a couple of brass filler units with sac installed. I knew I would be in over my head trying to replace the pellet cup and cementing the sac to the filler unit with a drop of cement, as the instructions that came with the brass unit said, to use a drop of cement to attach the sac. I could have used the old filler units and attached the sac, but until I had the filler units out, I didn't have any idea what was involved. If the filler unit comes out intact, all you have to do is get the sac remnants out of the pen and cement the sac to the filler unit. I am guessing that knowledgable repairers don't use super glue, probably sac cement, whatever that is, but you can buy it.
edit to add: This is a good reason to repair your own pens. If you have instructions, by repairing the pen you can get a clear picture of how the pen works, and this inspires confidence in the pen. The pen then becomes something more than a black box full of mystery.
Last edited by pajaro; September 29th, 2014 at 01:25 AM.
I have tried the brass filling units on two occasions. They functioned well in both instances. My only complaint is that, because of their weight the throw off the balance of the pen for me.
I generally try to seek out original parts but was curious about the reproductions.
--greg
Of all the elements of repair and restoration, luck is the least. Patience, knowledge, good tools, prudence - these are all the important parts. The older the item, the more you lean on these parts of the process. Counting on luck is right up there with the Tooth Fairy: it needs to be left behind.
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
LagNut (October 1st, 2014)
I find the brass fillers make no difference I can feel in the balance in the restored pen. I like the look of them. Theoretically the brass ought to make the pen rear heavy, but the amount of brass is small. Compare them with the amount of brass in a piston filler like the Pelikan M1000 or M800 and the result in the P51 is less pronounced. The Pelikan M200 to M600 have lighter resin piston filler mechanisms. With the Pelikan M800 and M1000 I could feel the back heaviness. I think the fact that the brass filler P51 unit is brass conditions you to think automatically that it is heavy.
The brass fillers being higher priced might be dragging the original filler prices up.
I have noted that original fillers with sac installed are more expensive: $35 and up as opposed to $28 for the brass unit with sac installed. Higher shipping costs from shippers of original fillers make the gap wider for delivered prices. It makes me think that sending the pen off for restoration might be better, but I learned something about the 51 Vac by doing this. It's no longer the 51 from hell in my view.
Having an expert restore the pen might be worthwhile, because the expert might notice any other issues with the pen, like cracks that might make the pen unrestorable.
GING GING (October 28th, 2014)
Not sure why you thought you'd have to replace the pellet cup. Was it missing or badly damaged?
Vacumatic diaphragms should not be cemented to their filler units.... and cementing the sac to the filler unit with a drop of cement, as the instructions that came with the brass unit said, to use a drop of cement to attach the sac.
Not quite. You have to get the old pellet out as well.I could have used the old filler units and attached the sac, but until I had the filler units out, I didn't have any idea what was involved. If the filler unit comes out intact, all you have to do is get the sac remnants out of the pen
Knowledgeable repairers don't use anything.... and cement the sac to the filler unit. I am guessing that knowledgable repairers don't use super glue, probably sac cement, whatever that is, but you can buy it.
--Daniel
“Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton
LagNut (October 14th, 2014)
“Every discussion which is made from an egoistic standpoint is corrupted from the start and cannot yield an absolutely sure conclusion. The ego puts its own interest first and twists every argument, word, even fact to suit that interest.”
― Paul Brunton, The Notebooks of Paul Brunton
The brass filler units seemed to work OK with the demi sacs that came with them.
I could have used the original filler units, the first one bu just buying a new sac and putting it on, the second one by fixing the unit with a new pellet cup and sac.
I gave the first filer unit away to another member. This unit will need a sac.
The second pen had problems. The hood had the point broken off. I took the hood off and found the threads were ruined, and the section was cracked on this dove gray 51. It wasn't going to go back together, so on the plus side I jave a new dove gray hood, a nice fine spare nib and breather tube, and a rhodium colored brass filler unit. I'll be able to repair the next of my three 51 Vacs that needs a resac, and there's a spare dove gray hood and fine nib and breather tube. From the experience and the help from everybody, I now have a much better idea of how to resac a 51 Vac.
I found it easier to unscrew the filler unit than to get the hood off of any 51.
Then, if the filler unit is intact, from all the help here, it appears all you have to do is positiion the new demi sac on the filler unit and screw it back in. When the filler unit seemed to get stuck going back in, I pushed slithtly on the filler rod to extend the sac and kept screwing it in until it was seated fully. Then it worked and didn't leak.
GING GING (October 28th, 2014)
http://fpgeeks.com/forum/album.php?a...chmentid=14344
If you click on the above link, you will get the picture of the instructions that came with the brass filler unit.
I uploaded the pic to an album here, and the best I could figure was to post a link to it.
Last edited by pajaro; October 13th, 2014 at 01:52 PM.
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