What's Going on With FPN?

[dfo]

I came to FPG because of the welcoming people and the lack of a domineering admin. I could care less about comparing the popularity of this forum with FPN. They should fix any tech issues pretty quickly. That said, I asked Wim to delete my account over there—which I think it is just locked—so I can't view any recent developments.

[Wuddus]

I think it is worth mentioning that the Admin of FPG is not in a competition with the admin of FPN for the most reads and most popular forum.

As I said elsewhere, the ads on FPN crossed the line with me so I'm checking in here more often.

FPG became more popular when FPN had technical issues last time and I think Geeks started when FPN went off line for a while.

AND I don't think anyone should give a rat's ### what Google thinks is the best on-line pen forum.

FarmBoy

While FPG may not intend to be in competition, it is.

I have no interest in being on multiple forums for the same topic. That's more hassle than it's worth to me. It made sense for me to go for the most active forum first, (why choose a less active forum as a first choice?) but I couldn't get in. I then went for what appeared to be the second most active, got in, and started getting settled.

Had FPN's forum been working properly, I probably wouldn't have signed up here - unless I found FPN not to my liking for some reason, and left.

[Jon Szanto]

While FPG may not intend to be in competition, it is.

I have no interest in being on multiple forums for the same topic. That's more hassle than it's worth to me. It made sense for me to go for the most active forum first, (why choose a less active forum as a first choice?) but I couldn't get in. I then went for what appeared to be the second most active, got in, and started getting settled.

Had FPN's forum been working properly, I probably wouldn't have signed up here - unless I found FPN not to my liking for some reason, and left.

Please bear in mind that this is your perspective and is not universal. For instance, even though FPN was the first pen forum I found when my interest started (eight years ago), I almost immediately looked for other forums. I've been a member of a number of them specifically because they are all different, and especially for a couple that had unique focuses or interests. That a very general interest in pens, such as yours, can be satisfied by one place, it doesn't necessarily follow that each forum would do it as well, nor does it follow that one forum per person will work for everyone. It certainly doesn't for me, just on an informational level. The actual flavor and personality of a forum, of which each is also somewhat unique, is another subject entirely.

tl;dr: One size does not fit all.

[Wuddus]

Absolutley, Jon. I can only speak for myself.

[Pterodactylus]

I agree with Wuddus and think this is a common approach to search for the biggest place with the most traffic.

I also did it that way and joined FPN first as it was by far the biggest one.
When FPN was down (I think 2012) I posted here instead (as many did).
But when FPN was back online I moved back to it as it was way too inconvenient to post in 2 forums covering the same topic.

And to be honest I didn´t also liked at that time the lack of content here.
I really enjoyed FPN (at least the next 3-4 years), it was great to have every minute a couple of new threads/posts to participate (not a few posts every day on good days).

When I heared rumors about censoring and deletion/manipulation of content, kicking of members, I just thought not true or they just deserved being kicked.......

Until the iron fist hit me out of the blue sky.
Now I know better and would not post there anymore even you would pay me for doing so.

I still dislike the lack of content here compared to the old times on FPN.
I hate the huge amount of sales threads which always block my sight to the real content.
I miss a ink and pen review index badly here (but who should create and maintain one?).
We lack at least one good mod/admin here (Still remember when Dan was in charge here and he was a good one).

But I´ve arranged myself with that and maybe it will change if more and more people will join here instead of the (evil and ad infected) other side

[Chrissy]

I miss a ink review index badly here (but who should create and maintain one?).

I would.

[Farmboy]

I think a big problem with FPN, FPG and FPNuts is a lack of traffic. I'd note that most of the pen people I know from shows and just being around pens for several decades are not on any Forum. I'd also note that a frightening number of the people that were, have left.

I'm not implying that the people that participate are not knowledgeable, resourceful, or good to have on a forum, just saying that the pen people I know from when I started are not around on the FPx boards. There is a vast knowledge, particularly of vintage pens that is not represented here or there.

Today there are three publications that are still full of information that is useful to know and many of it newly found and researched.

Pennant (Journal of the Pen Collectors of America)
Journal of the Writing Equipment Society (The English equivalent of the PCA)
The Fountain Pen Journal (Journal edited by Paul Erano, author and publisher of one of the first fountain pen table books)

There is also Pen World though more focused on modern pens.

Then there are all the printed periodicals that are no longer in print. Perhaps the best known is Pen Fanciers Magazine. There are also all the on-line presences that are gone. Lion and Pen for example.

Things come and go but FPx has a ways to go to catch up to some of the other less electronic media in many ways.

Farmboy (Todd)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

My bet, if I was a betting creature, would be that those people of whom you speak are largely collectors.

[Farmboy]

My bet, if I was a betting creature, would be that those people of whom you speak are largely collectors.

First off, why make such a distinction. Collector, user, accumulator, hoarder, who really cares? If you have a pen and a bottle of ink you can play. You can even play if you are out of ink and you don't have a pen anymore. You can also play if you have 1000s of pens or a 1000 bottles of ink and reams of different paper. NO Lets not make such distinctions; collectors, users, and anyone in between the two, can sit anywhere on the bus and use any of the restrooms.

Second, no. Many are well known Penman, Calligraphers, Artists, and Letterers.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

My bet, if I was a betting creature, would be that those people of whom you speak are largely collectors.

First off, why make such a distinction. Collector, user, accumulator, hoarder, who really cares? If you have a pen and a bottle of ink you can play. You can even play if you are out of ink and you don't have a pen anymore. You can also play if you have 1000s of pens or a 1000 bottles of ink and reams of different paper. NO Lets not make such distinctions; collectors, users, and anyone in between the two, can sit anywhere on the bus and use any of the restrooms.

Second, no. Many are well known Penman, Calligraphers, Artists, and Letterers.

Why not? My distinction is not pejorative, the tone of your reply notwithstanding, but merely suggests that there may less of interest for a collector on a forum such as this. If there is another compelling reason why those people are not on here then perhaps you should reveal what it is.

[Pterodactylus]

I miss a ink review index badly here (but who should create and maintain one?).

I would.

Great Chrissy, when can you start?

Can we stick an index thread to the top of a forum?
Best would be that only a limited amount of people can edit the index, so that the others canˋt post in it (and spoil it)
I guess we will need our admin to set this up.

[Jon Szanto]

Can we stick an index thread to the top of a forum?
Best would be that only a limited amount of people can edit the index, so that the others canˋt post in it (and spoil it)
I guess we will need our admin to set this up.

Please try to remember (I realize you are partially new here): FPG is somewhat crippled in that we don't have a lot of participation/connection to our only admin, the owner of the site. To make things change around the forum on an infrastructure level is not a thing that happens just because we want to or ask for. It *may* be possible to have something like a stickied post or a post that always appears at the top, but that would have to be in conjunction with getting successfully in touch with Eric.

[Pterodactylus]

I‘m totally aware of this.

But


Quote 014 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Waterman 52)

And


Quote 023 by Ptero Pterodactylus, auf Flickr

(Pelikan M205 Blue-Marbled - B EMF ..... Colorverse Crystal Planet)

[Empty_of_Clouds]

I just had the following reputation comment sent to me:

"Please refrain from ascribing sinister motives to other posters solely to build conflict on FPG."

It appears to be connected with my reply suggesting that there may not be as much of interest on these forums to collectors compared to people who are more likely users.

This was a non-pejorative speculation connected to why there is less traffic here, with respect to one person's (Farmboy) assertation of lots of pen people not being engaged with the forums. There is no 'ascribing of sinister motives' (to whom?) here, and I have no interest in building conflict. If that is how it is interpreted by the person who left the comment then I feel very sorry for you.


To restate, if there are lots of 'pen people' out there, and according to Farmboy there are, why are they not engaging with the forums? I think that is a perfectly valid question that does not require ulterior motive. Maybe there's a general reason, maybe there are lots of reasons. More importantly, maybe the reason is one that could be addressed by forum owners and members to make the place more attractive to these swathes of non-participating pen people?

So, to whoever left the comment, at least try to think beyond your own paranoia next time.

[Jon Szanto]

I‘m totally aware of this.

Then maybe *you* should try contacting the admins and see if you can get some action happening towards setting up an ink index. It is all well and good to post little phrases to boost people's confidence, but I'm one of those people that has actually spent time (in the past) trying to work with Eric to accommodate changes to the board. It isn't impossible, but it is a process that has elements to take into consideration.

[Jon Szanto]

This was a non-pejorative speculation connected to why there is less traffic here, with respect to one person's (Farmboy) assertation of lots of pen people not being engaged with the forums. There is no 'ascribing of sinister motives' (to whom?) here, and I have no interest in building conflict.

We are in a small epoch where there is a very significant dialogue and push/pull between a new generation of pen enthusiasts and an older generation of pen hobbyists and collectors. It is fairly well-documented on various platforms and is quite evident in attendance and activities at pen shows. While you may be unaware of the negative vibe floating around, I can assure you that sometimes even casually mentioning "collectors" as a separate or sub-group comes across as pejorative. Part of good communication is not only clearly framing your intention but being at least partially aware of the ecosystem within which it might be received.

Don't get me wrong: I think doing some kind of neg rep stuff to you is childish and unwarranted. That said, I just was involved in a... discussion where a good friend, who is helpful to a fault in guiding new users into vintage pens, was referred to as an "unhelpful dinosaur". It is into that generalized atmosphere that your comment is being made. Whether you are aware of that or not, it is out there at the moment. This gives you some context.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Thank you, Mr Szanto. As a distant member I, of course, have never attended a pen show, and I don't personally know anyone who uses a pen or collects them (or both). So, in that respect I am unaware of that 'generalized atmosphere'.

There are collectors, there are users, there are artisans and so on. And there will no doubt be people with a foot in many camps. Being in one camp or another doesn't have a value appended to it in my book, they are simply different areas of interest. So, in that light I believe my follow-on question is still relevant. What, if anything, would make the forums a more attractive place to visit for people from the most varied of camps? I am all about as much inclusion possible, always have been.

[Jon Szanto]

So, in that respect I am unaware of that 'generalized atmosphere'.

Not any more.

[Wuddus]

I was aware that there were different facets to fountain pen people, but wasn't aware there was an "us and them" tension. Even though it's a niche arena, I would have thought there'd be plenty of space for all to follow their own preferences, whether that's high priced or low, new or old, restoring, collecting, or just having fun inking them up and using them. Then again, we are talking about people, so on that level it does make sense

[Pterodactylus]

I‘m totally aware of this.

Then maybe *you* should try contacting the admins and see if you can get some action happening towards setting up an ink index. It is all well and good to post little phrases to boost people's confidence, but I'm one of those people that has actually spent time (in the past) trying to work with Eric to accommodate changes to the board. It isn't impossible, but it is a process that has elements to take into consideration.

Hey Jon, now I feel strongly negative vibes, are you annoyed by making improvement suggestions or posting “little phrases” or listing my personal thoughts what I miss here?

I do not see it happen that *I* will try to set up an ink index here, I’m only a member.
But I would not hold somebody back to try to do so, I would even encourage people to try it (you seem to have a problem if somebody want to try it).

I think this site strongly need one or more active admins, with all the rights to modify the forum.
Until Eric does not give somebody that permissions (as he obviously do not want to take this role) nothing serious will happen.

I also think that there are some people here which could take this role.

I know what I would to first with admin rights.
I would remove the sales threads immediately from the “Whatˋs new” feature.

Donˋt be offended when I say that personally I would be a little bit scared if he would grant you admin permissions.


Strangely enough I did not felt some negative vibes with EoC‘s post.

And if somebody still has any doubts to which category I belong, Ím a user.
And I said it a couple of times in the past (here and for sure on FPN), personally I do not understand collectors, just to stare at tools which I would not use is not enough for me.
My personal opinion is, a tool which isnˋt used is not worth owning it.

But I do not see a problem, only because I don´t understand collectors does not mean that they could not have fun collecting tools they do not use just looking at them.

Iˋm fine with that, everybody can enjoy his/her hobbies as he/she likes and there is enough room for all of us.