Is FPGeeks still a pleasant place to stay?

[adhoc]

I think so, given you avoid the "politics, religion, and society" subforum like the plague. I successfully avoided it for years and I regret ever posting there. I participate across many forums and this one is probably one of the best I know of.

[dneal]

EiC felt bullied. I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm not suggesting ignoring his outbursts. I'm suggesting calmly discussing them, either through PM or openly, to get to the heart of what the issue is. I did it and it resulted in a good relationship. You even saw a public post where I told him I felt he was in the wrong and he didn't react negatively. He felt disrespected here. Once he knew how much respect I had for him and gave him a few reasons why, he trusted me. It didn't take much, but it did take me reaching out.

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Been there, done that, with the member in question too.

Fred’s post is correct.

[Lloyd]

EiC felt bullied. I'm not saying he was or wasn't. I'm not suggesting ignoring his outbursts. I'm suggesting calmly discussing them, either through PM or openly, to get to the heart of what the issue is. I did it and it resulted in a good relationship. You even saw a public post where I told him I felt he was in the wrong and he didn't react negatively. He felt disrespected here. Once he knew how much respect I had for him and gave him a few reasons why, he trusted me. It didn't take much, but it did take me reaching out.

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Been there, done that, with the member in question too.

Fred’s post is correct.

Just because it's correct to you, doesn't make it universally correct.

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[dneal]

I didn't assert that it was universally correct.

[TSherbs]

As a reminder, I will note that the OP wrote more generally about this forum and the behavior over all. The degree that we continue to focus on one member perhaps highlights our reluctance to look in a mirror and improve the quality of our own interactions. Christof wrote more generally about the dynamics here. I accept my role in this, and, as I say, I am making steps to avoid similar patterns in the future.

[Lloyd]

I didn't assert that it was universally correct.

You didn't say it was correct to you, you labeled it as a correct statement.

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[724Seney]

@Lloyd: I am awed and inspired by your very obvious and genuine compassion. I do not know what you do, but you surely come across as an accomplished professional who has much experience in matters such as these.
I also want to agree, 100%, that there is not going to be anything which is "universally correct" in this matter.

But, I have to say that I, too, think that Fred’s post is correct. Even when dealing with needy humans, there comes a time when enough is enough. It's a matter of knowing "when to say when" and in this instance, personally, I think we are there. Some personalities simply cannot be rehabilitated and, indeed, some are actually fueled by the efforts of those kind spirits who keep trying to do so.

I do not anticipate you will agree...and that's fine...... but I do hope you understand this point of view.

I also agree that the OP's intent with this thread was about more than just this one individual. That is an important point which was already made by another.

[Lloyd]

@Lloyd: I am awed and inspired by your very obvious and genuine compassion. I do not know what you do, but you surely come across as an accomplished professional who has much experience in matters such as these.
I also want to agree, 100%, that there is not going to be anything which is "universally correct" in this matter.

But, I have to say that I, too, think that Fred’s post is correct. Even when dealing with needy humans, there comes a time when enough is enough. It's a matter of knowing "when to say when" and in this instance, personally, I think we are there. Some personalities simply cannot be rehabilitated and, indeed, some are actually fueled by the efforts of those kind spirits who keep trying to do so.

I do not anticipate you will agree...and that's fine...... but I do hope you understand this point of view.

I also agree that the OP's intent with this thread was about more than just this one individual. That is an important point which was already made by another.

Thanks for the complement. By interacting through PM with EoC, and seeing his positive and negative posts on the forum, I think that, while he may have needed more support, he was a very valuable member who was trying to be a positive spark here. As for the op's query, I think it goes way beyond EoC, or at least should. There are many here who are quick to point the finger at others but refuse to look in a mirror.

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[724Seney]

@Lloyd: I am awed and inspired by your very obvious and genuine compassion. I do not know what you do, but you surely come across as an accomplished professional who has much experience in matters such as these.
I also want to agree, 100%, that there is not going to be anything which is "universally correct" in this matter.

But, I have to say that I, too, think that Fred’s post is correct. Even when dealing with needy humans, there comes a time when enough is enough. It's a matter of knowing "when to say when" and in this instance, personally, I think we are there. Some personalities simply cannot be rehabilitated and, indeed, some are actually fueled by the efforts of those kind spirits who keep trying to do so.

I do not anticipate you will agree...and that's fine...... but I do hope you understand this point of view.

I also agree that the OP's intent with this thread was about more than just this one individual. That is an important point which was already made by another.

Thanks for the complement. By interacting through PM with EoC, and seeing his positive and negative posts on the forum, I think that, while he may have needed more support, he was a very valuable member who was trying to be a positive spark here. As for the op's query, I think it goes way beyond EoC, or at least should. There are many here who are quick to point the finger at others but refuse to look in a mirror.

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Others have tried....and failed.
But that should not dissuade you from trying; I wish you the best for much success.

[dneal]

I didn't assert that it was universally correct.

You didn't say it was correct to you, you labeled it as a correct statement.

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We don't have to play out your Monty Python signature. You can have your experience and opinion, and I can have mine.

I have on two occasions had conversations with the member in question, along the lines of what you describe; which is why I quoted you.

My personal experience is that Fred's hypothesis is correct. My personal observations are that Fred's hypothesis is correct.

[Lloyd]

Thank you, dneal, for making it a subjective comment. I can believe your two attempts failed with EoC. However, perhaps it was the tone as read that he misunderstood. He may have painted an image of you, realistic or not, that he biased your writing by. Perhaps if you didn't come across in some posts the way you do, he'd be more open to your support. It's just a theory, but it's worth wondering if we are trying to dominate or be peers.

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[TSherbs]

Oops

[TSherbs]

Yes, maybe he did contribute amply at times but there were others when he degenerated into being an aggressive name caller...

This could be describing several persons here without much stretching, me among them.

[dneal]

Thank you, dneal, for making it a subjective comment. I can believe your two attempts failed with EoC. However, perhaps it was the tone as read that he misunderstood. He may have painted an image of you, realistic or not, that he biased your writing by. Perhaps if you didn't come across in some posts the way you do, he'd be more open to your support. It's just a theory, but it's worth wondering if we are trying to dominate or be peers.

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Your speculation on the motives and minds of two individuals' personal conversations you were not part of are unnecessary, at best. I don’t know what set him off this last time. I saw the spat with Jon. I saw the “you can’t go home” thread. Once the P51 thread got contentious, I offered words of concern and compassion. I deleted them and went full drill sergeant when he started with the PIF business. I give him a lot more leeway than others, for the reasons you mention; and because he does start novel threads in an otherwise slow forum - but the PIF thing went to far, for me.

Fred could have posted that same comment years ago, and I would agree then too. I remember his previous screen name, I remember when he referred to his recent name in 3rd person. I remember many occasions when he “threatened” to leave. I have poked him for that and his eccentricities, but I have accepted them too. I have no problem acknowledging I can be abrasive, and why. I can also be compassionate and supportive, despite my agreement with Fred’s assessment.

Do I want EoC to leave? Not really. I find this forum a pleasant place to visit, to address the OP. I also understand human personality and behavior falls across a spectrum, as do the nature(s?) of internet forums. This one, without moderation, is a bit like a playground. We kids will have our spats, form cliques, and apply peer pressure and even bully to moderate group behavior. We will also offer advice, kindness and generosity. I’m ok with that, and all that does or doesn’t come with it.

[An old bloke]

At what point does this conversation become an example of what is meant by the expression 'flogging a dead horse'?

[TSherbs]

It doesn't have to be flogging at all.

[Lloyd]

dneal, with all due respect, my view of your posts differs greatly from yours. I read the full P51 thread (EoC saved it and shared it) and your words could not be justified. I wish you would read more of your own posts as thoroughly, and as much in an attempt to use it against someone else, as you do to other's posts.

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[Lloyd]

At what point does this conversation become an example of what is meant by the expression 'flogging a dead horse'?

Unfortunately, we can't kill the horse as it holds the whip.

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[dneal]

dneal, with all due respect, my view of your posts differs greatly from yours. I read the full P51 thread (EoC saved it and shared it) and your words could not be justified. I wish you would read more of your own posts as thoroughly, and as much in an attempt to use it against the poster, as you do to other's posts.

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I am very cognizant of what I post, and why. I'm well aware this medium is prone to misunderstanding. Expletives are not, which is why I use them when I choose. I make no apologies for it. EoC is entitled to his perspective, and so are you.

Perhaps you would do well to heed your own advice. Your posts now appear to me to be petty and bickering - your Monty Python argument. I'm done playing with that. There is much you seemingly are not aware of, and certainly much you are not privy to.

[TSherbs]

Believe me, I thought for a very long time whether I should really write the following. Especially at a time when there is more arguing than interesting content being posted. The reason why I do it anyway? - I have come to appreciate this forum very much, and its members as well. It has become dear to me.

I really like the idea of an unmoderated forum. After all, we are all adult persons and for a long time this worked very well but for some time I have less and less desire to come here.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not accusing anyone. But I wonder why there has been a spiteful tone here for some time. And I wonder why this forum is dominated by threads who hardly contribute any interesting content? And why are there hostile camps among the members instead of beeing just a community? What is the appeal of arguing on the internet and why don't we all try to make this forum a pleasant place to escape to for recreation from our daily lives?

I am not a judge and I will not take sides. But I ask you to think about, what kind of content you'd like to read. Shouldn't we all try to create more of interesting stuff and just ignore what we don't like? I am convinced that in this forum is enough space for everyone.

Christof

As of the moment that I am quoting this, 18 members approved of the post. It's the most popular post in this thread. It deserves a reminder.