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Thread: Definition of Christian

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    I wish some members with an interest in discussing this topic were available. If there are those for which my posts have turned, you off. I apologize. Please post your understandings.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ... If there are those for which my posts have turned, you off.
    "If," Chuck?

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    Ah, here is some more of that obsession with *me.* This is getting odd, Chuck. I'm not doing anything you suggest about defending myself against these stupid aspersions. I've now posted this twice (on two different threads).
    Yeah, it is odd when people are obsessesed with you and invoke your name for no real reason other than they live in your head.

    Here's an example:


    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    What if EoC has aquired it?? And this is all a giant lab experiment?? dneal once also wrote that he considers FPGeeks a psyche experi that he looks over. Freaky possibilities. And now, who knows who our alerts and emails go to....

    You're da bomb, Jon. Get some sleep, brother.

    edited to add: oh yeah, I am three hours ahead....I am the tired one....
    You're a liar. That's nothing but bullshit. I'll treat you with rude contempt for this lie, you McFuckety McFuckFace Liar...

    That's how conversation works for you, right?

    If you go back and look, since your memory from one thread to another seems challenged; you'll probably find that I was referring to certain woke morons in this subsection as being little more than a psych experiment. What else would you do when you discover humans impervious to reason?


    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Get back on the topic.
    The topic is Jesus' divinity. You've yet to address it.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ... If there are those for which my posts have turned, you off.
    "If," Chuck?
    This wasn't for those that are their own god's, Ted. You can't turn someone off that has no switch. Your light is off and you've thrown away the switch.

    The nonsense that you and Chip have posted didn't progress the topic. Again, more cynicism and anger than anything else. My HS English teacher was the same angry, cynical person as you depict. He did me great harm. Yes, I have a fear of those who become their own god, and will be an advocate for the children.

    However, that you think I messed up the thread is just how delusional you've become, and how little you understand the New Testament writers. It was this message that got Jesus crucified and Paul beheaded. What did you think it was about, drag performer story time? Wake up a smell the coffee, Ted. Forget what you think you know and find out if it's true or not for yourself. Since you are retired and all, stop coming here and approach it you would instruct a student to do. It is obvious you have no clue based on the things you post. Growing up in church or being a preachers kid is not always an advantage in spiritual formation. Sometimes it is a deterrent.

    "7 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do so that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 But Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not give false testimony, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth.” 21 Looking at him, Jesus showed love to him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But he [a]was deeply dismayed by [b]these words, and he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Well, like I said.

    Religious righteousness and demonization. Perhaps we should use this as the "definition of Christian."

    If you're worried about damage from contact with non-Christian ideas, then perhaps you shouldn't hang around sermonizing to atheists on a fountain pen website. There are all sorts of fora out there for believers, some quite heavily moderated to remove dissent, animus, etc. Some very smart religious people run them and participate (I have been a member of some, although not now for at least 10 years). You might find more of what you are looking for.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Well, like I said.

    Religious righteousness and demonization. Perhaps we should use this as the "definition of Christian."

    If you're worried about damage from contact with non-Christian ideas, then perhaps you shouldn't hang around sermonizing to atheists on a fountain pen website. There are all sorts of fora out there for believers, some quite heavily moderated to remove dissent, animus, etc. Some very smart religious people run them and participate (I have been a member of some, although not now for at least 10 years). You might find more of what you are looking for.
    Like you, I find this discussion interesting and profitable. How better to formulate into words what you are thinking about and studying.

    Outsiders have opinions about Christianity. They think they know how they should act or what they should say. They do not, probably, impost those same standards on themselves. Below is what happened to Jesus when he told them about their Jewish history. Was he being overly righteous and demonizing? You can look it up to see what he said if interested, Ted.

    From Luke 4,
    "So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff. Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way."

    Outsiders may want to be wooed into these discussions, but then it's too much like selling the message. The message has an affect, and it is no always what people want to hear. John wrote, "who-so-ever". Folks make their own decisions how to live. No one comes to the Kingdom by accident. And, you won't be able to blame me or a fondling priest for how you choose to live your life.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Some are calling for a boycott of The Chosen film over a Pride Flag seen on the set. This is as misguided as the beer or Target boycott. I’m curious about what these people are for? We know what they are against.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ... And, you won't be able to blame me or a fondling priest for how you choose to live your life.
    WTF does this mean? I have never done this, either.

    Why would anyone engage with you on this topic when you twist and lie about what people say?

    To make clear:

    1) You (the poster named "Chuck") have absolutely nothing to do with my basic position regarding my personal faith. My posting here on it is an occasional intellectual (or merely habitual) exercise that has no impact on my beliefs or my journey. I rarely say anything about that (my personal journey) and certainly am not interested in public responses to it on an internet thread. I reserve such conversations only for private correspondence and my family and friends in "real" life.

    2) My objections (and "concern over") the systemic abuse of children by the Catholic priests (and other religious persons) has also had nothing to do with my personal spiritual journey. Nothing at all. My objections are about justice and law and consequences or the hollow righteousness of religious believers that don't properly acknowledge that religion (and spiritual authority) has been full of rank terror and abuse throughout its history. Religious abuse has nothing to do with whether I think that there is a God or not or that the Bible stories have anything to say to me. My adult beliefs were shaped long before the crimes against children were known to me.

    So, as I have said before, stop writing bullshit conclusions about me. Stop assuming that you know anything about me or my faith. Write about your faith only, and stop sermonizing to others. Unless, of course, you want some unvarnished replies in return. This last comment from you is just another of those uncharitable swipes you take toward people. I am not seeking to "blame you" for my lack of faith. I don't know why your ego has placed you in that position of connection or importance to me in this regard. You are irrelevant to my faith, my criticism of abusers, whatever and everything.

    This thread started as a question by someone who had lost belief in the "divinity" of Jesus and asked if that meant that he was no longer a Christian. Over time many twists and turns have occurred here, but you seem bent on turning this thread into a discussion (promotion) of the idea of "discipleship." That is all about you, Chuck, and as far as I can tell--only you. You've done this now to this thread for page after page. No one else has taken up the mantle with you. No one even seems interested in that specific idea, and definitely not as a minimum definition of what it means to be a Christian. Don't blame others or give them a hard time or demonize them if they disagree with you.

    Or go ahead and demonize. Like I said, maybe that is what you are actually demonstrating makes "a Christian."
    Last edited by TSherbs; June 7th, 2023 at 08:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    I am not responsible for you or to please you, Ted. If you are not interested in discipleship, stop responding and you'll not read another post to address you.

    Yes, the thread began with the divinity of Jesus. That is not provable, so the conversations went elsewhere. This is where discipleship for anything provides experiential validation. If you are interested in learning to do something, you get a teacher. Their skills as a teacher and their words will determine the quality of your experience along with the appropriate effort on your part. However, it did not appear the OP was interested in any type of curriculum of study, just wanted to know if he was still a Christian. Maybe he never was, but thought he was.

    You've twisted this thread in the direction that you preferred, and I've responded that what you believe is not according to anything the scriptures would allow. I really don't know why you even post on this thread and have said so. What you seem to want is a pissing contest between you and anyone that disagrees with you are any thread. the reason you can't have decent conversations isn't because your skills are superior. I can't think of another member that has to constantly use four letter words to describe what you are talking about. Not that I care, just an observation.

    Please put me on your ignore list. If your value here is only to post links that most of us already know about, it is the reason you are not being engaged. Maybe you and Chip can use the PM feature and all your troubles with the most toxic members will disappear. I've been accused of a lot of things, but never a mind reader. I have no idea what's going on in your mind, that is if you have one.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I am not responsible for you or to please you, Ted.
    No shit, Sherlock. That is what I just told you after you suggested that I blame *you* for my religious viewpoints.

    ... I have no idea what's going on in your mind, that is if you have one.
    Ah, that lovely Christian spirit, right on cue and right "on topic" as you claimed. So, your sensibilities are more upset by profanity than by, say, thousands of priests abusing tens of thousands of children? Which fact is actually more "profane"? Some vulgar language between adults, or thousands of abused children? (and you have the gall to say that I don't "care about children"). Get your priorities straight. You guys who criticize me for vulgar language crack me up with your faux refinement and decorum where a lie and a sharp aspersion are justified but a vulgarity is sin. Where telling someone that they "have no mind" or lying is more acceptable than just saying "fuck off." I prefer the direct, honest route: Go fuck yourself, Chuck. The Brits know how to do this right.

    Each time I see you lying, you're going to get more of the same. Lying for Jesus is no better than just lying for yourself.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Good grief, Ted. 😂

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Another way of thinking about God, as a spirit as the scriptures tell us. God is the creative element that creates and governs the universe, and spirit is the creative element in human nature, the image of God in mankind. Dallas Willard

    The purpose of the law was to keep the people of God on the right life path.

    The message of Jesus is to put the law inside a person so they naturally come to happily accept and do those laws and to be helped by the Holy Spirit.

    There is no law against treating others as you want to be treated.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    You both do realize you're just declaring your "correct" answer, about something impossible to know, over and over again. Right?

    That's the problem with politics and religion - and particularly religion.

    The point of the thread wasn't about which impossible-to-prove belief is true, because that's futile. The point of the thread was the variety of doctrine, its history, etc...

    Jesus' divinity, like trinity doctrine; comes later in Christianity.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    I do understand your perspective, but when the OP decided his position, for him, was no longer tenable, there most likely was a reason. Was he adequately informed internally? What was his experience or expectations?

    I do not mean to give my correct answer, or force it in another person. My motivation is to provide as scriptural support as I can about what Jesus said. Of course, I’d you don’t believe that Jesus didn’t actually say anything, that’s an option you can choose.

    I saw my primary conversation with those with some interest in discussing the text.

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Can’t edit on my iPhone, this is a link for why I am promoting the concept of discipleship.
    I thinks it’s central to the OP’s experience.
    https://dwillard.org/articles/rethinking-evangelism

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I do understand your perspective, but when the OP decided his position, for him, was no longer tenable, there most likely was a reason. Was he adequately informed internally? What was his experience or expectations?

    I do not mean to give my correct answer, or force it in another person. My motivation is to provide as scriptural support as I can about what Jesus said. Of course, I’d you don’t believe that Jesus didn’t actually say anything, that’s an option you can choose.

    I saw my primary conversation with those with some interest in discussing the text.
    Chuck, I think this is a perfect thread for you to contribute to. I'd recommend going back and browsing the conversation from the beginning, with particular emphasis on jar's posts.

    Yes, there are distractions and disruptions. EoC trying to turn it into something else (first a question of "categories" and then just an atheist demonstrating that there are no conclusive proofs for god's existence - which is hardly the topic. There are TSherbs occasional distractions, some nonsense about hissing in the garden and then the word-salad jar correctly points out. Again, when you realize it's just a string of emotion typed out, it's more apparent and explains why it's 'devoid of meaning' (or however jar put it).

    The flip side was (I believe) Matteob, distracting and basically calling everyone who disagreed with his selections and interpretations of verse - and conclusions derived - as heretics. You're not that far along, but definitely on that side of the aisle. Citing the Bible to justify the Bible is a circular argument. Adding the multitude of contradictions, mistranslations, manipulations, and interpretations; you can easily end up with a Southern Baptist and Catholic explaining why the other is going to hell based on how they practice their interpretations of a book. That gets old really quick. You'll find a few Twain quoted in the earlier parts of this thread summarizing that notion.

    But the evolution of the Church, much of it documented, is fascinating. Trinity doctrine is an evolution, not an original concept. How did it get there and why?

    With all the denominations (each claiming to have the "true religion"), what is the origin for their differing views?
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    I will do as you say @dneal, go back and review.

    Just as Jesus didn’t condemn the woman caught having sex with a man other than her husband, I condemn no one.

    My ambition is to seek the Kingom of God and all that means.

    In The Shack, McKinsey asked Jesus if there was but one path to him. The reply was that Jesus would use any path. This is anathema of course to the Evangelicals. I’m only interested in the true path.

    Dallas Willard was radical. I know of no church which practices what he taught. Ironically, he only taught what Jesus said .

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Only Jesus taught what Jesus said. Everybody else gets it secondhand.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Only Jesus taught what Jesus said. Everybody else gets it secondhand.
    I don't want to assume I understand your point. Care to clarify?
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Definition of Christian

    Just a little tongue in cheek pedantry, but it's relevant in this topic's context.

    The only record of what Jesus taught was recorded by someone else, so we get it all secondhand. The children's game telephone is a good example of the problems with relaying information from one person to the next.

    Paul claims to have met the spirit of Jesus, who spoke to him. In this case, again we only have Paul telling us what Jesus said.

    Then you add centuries of men determining what was "authentic", what should be added to the Canon, and what should be omitted (sometimes under punishment of death). Different denominations have different Bibles, and I'm not talking about King James or New International. Books are added or omitted in cases.

    It's problematic, to say the least.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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