Brian Goulet and his recent Q&A "under cutting"

[Pickwick]

This really has me worked up and feeling rather guilty.

I think you cannot solve the problems of the world singlehandedly. Just as you would not go live off the grid in the forest where you grow your own food and live with no electricity or modern conveniences to remove your carbon footprint, you cannot solve the consumerist nature of our society. I don't think you should exclude yourself from the hobby simply due to lack of means. Perhaps one day soon, you will have the means to be able to buy pens from US distributors. Then you can pass on these cheaper pens to some one else cannot afford then pens at that moment. That is just an example.

For me, I am new to the community but at this point, Brian will have all my money. His company has done more for me than any other. I went to the local pen store Dromgooles because everyone here told me that it was the happiest place on earth. I got there and started looking around. For a while no one came to help me and then eventually I noticed an employee was following me around the store and STARING. I tried asking a couple of questions but she gave such curt responses that it was obvious she had no intention of starting a dialogue or assisting me. I went to the pen counter and stood there for a while, looking at pens and waiting for someone to help me. The employee who was following me continued to stare as though I did not belong by the pen counter. Now, you have to understand, I was dressed and composed properly. I did not look like some bum off the street who had come to shoplift. I have a six figure salary, I can afford this shit! I really don't want to open this can of worms but frankly, all the white people in the store were readily being helped and I was the only non-white girl in there and I was being treated like I was about to rob the place or something. So finally I just paid for the stationary I had picked up and left. These people will not have another cent from me.

Brian's people, on the other hand, have always responded to the questions I email them and there aren't many because the videos cover so much of what I want and need to know. I will happily pay full price to them. They deserve it!

[Kaputnik]

I wasn't going to sit through the full 75 minute video (do people really do that?) but I clicked at around 32 minutes and fortuitously found most of the part that is under discussion here. I understand his point about playing by the rules set by manufacturers for U.S. distributors, and that that's the way he wants to run his business. Fair enough, but in itself, not a reason for me not to look at other options. It's not just overseas sellers, I know of one generally reputable U.S. dealer who sells the Pilot Custom Heritage 92 for $133, with a free shipping option within the U.S. Are they actually doing something shady to undercut Goulet's price of $220? Perhaps, and I'm willing to hear an explanation of why, but I'm not going to assume it. In fact, I bought my own two CH 92s from eBay and Amazon, and paid a little more than $133 for each, including postage, but both sellers seemed to be legitimate, and I got nib and color options not offered by Goulet Pens.

Incidentally, that U.S. dealer sells the Pilot Elite as the Elite 95S (it's a pen that I considered but decided against). BG claims that one is not supposed to sell it as the Elite in the U.S. due to American trademark issues, and that it's only supposed to be sold as the E95S (which is what he carries). I can understand the point he's making without necessarily seeing it as an ethical problem for the buyer or seller.

Value added service? I can understand that for many people, getting their questions answered pre-sale by the seller may be useful, but I don't think I've ever asked Goulet any questions before buying from them. Give them credit anyway for putting up a web site that gives the information I want to know about the products they sell, but other sellers do that too, including some "undercutters". After sale service? I did exchange the Delta pen that I bought from them, and it was a painless process, but when the pen developed further problems a year later, I had to send it to the manufacturer. Goulet's will write with a pen to test it before they send it to you (and presumably if they find they have a dud, send you a different one), but they don't offer the nib tweaking services of some other sellers. My ideal for after sale service is, in any case, for it to be something I don't need, because I've gotten the thing I ordered and it works out of the box.

Many people have found the Goulet's extensive video library useful in learning about fountain pens. I've found a couple of their videos somewhat helpful, but have gotten most of my information from other sources. Is the undoubted effort that they have put into "educating" people about fountain pens a reason for me to buy from them? It might be if I had used it more, and I felt grateful to them for answering my questions, but that is not the case.

It was still interesting to hear him put his case and explain his point of view. Goulet's is a vendor I always consider when I go looking for pen stuff on line, but most of my future purchases of new pen stuff will probably be ink and paper; any additional pens are likely to be vintage. And actually, I don't see buying any more ink for quite a while, and my paper supplies are holding up well.

[TSherbs]

Wow, there is great commentary from several points of view on this thread. And no animus! An achievement. I dolled out many "thanks," to whatever degree that matters.

My opinion agrees with every person whom I thanked. Couldn't say it better, and no need to be redundant.

[TSherbs]

I'll only add this: I have always taken Mr. Goulet's videos primarily to be a form of marketing. He does not review items that he does not sell, and avoids those types of questions. Other persons, selling nothing, post very informative reviews and advice, much more detailed and unconnected to marketing, than the Goulet videos. Goulet videos could disappear, and many of us would not miss them because of the plethora of review information elsewhere. It IS true that Goulet product descriptions are the MOST detailed, which I have appreciated (and I do purchase from them from time to time).

[Sailor Kenshin]

I know this is a bit of threadjacking, but where I live, we still have farmer's markets. And some of them do sell amazing produce you can't touch elsewhere. Others are depressing little pits that have been red-lighted by the Health Department. The idea I am fumbling for could be, 'It depends on the seller.'

[mhosea]

I didn't watch the video, but I've thought a lot about the issue. I guess my reaction is that in a free market, it's all good. If pen companies want to fight the free market with exclusive distributors and MAPs, then they will create a market for direct-to-customer exporters as a consequence if the distributor sets prices too high. Brian is well within his rights to argue for consumers to eschew these other sources, which I can only guess is what he is doing because it is what I would do in his place. Hopefully he will succeed in persuading a sufficient percentage of folks to do exactly that, as it will preserve the power of choice for everyone, whether they are persuaded or not. And yet, I don't personally see it as a moral or ethical issue. If something needs almost everyone to agree in order to "be" in a free market, then only by force can it survive.

[penwash]

First off, I like Brian Goulet.
A few months ago, I watched several of his videos along with Matt's and SBRE's, and I enjoyed those videos.

I purchase my first "haul" of pen related stuff from Goulet, where else?
I think they are the best in terms of putting their image in the minds of people who just got into fountain pens.
And I do believe that's the segment that Goulet Pens should focus on.

Let Goulet Pens be THE source for every FP beginners. And the opportunity will open up, for example he can offer trade-ins for the next step pens like Platinum or CH Pilot (this is one way he could sell Platinum pens).

My point is, as a fellow guy-who-runs-a-business, I can say from experience that if a business does not re-invent itself periodically, it's hard to survive let alone thrive.

[inklord]

I have bought quite a bit, and practically exclusively from the Goulets and from Brian Anderson since I started to purchase pens in the USA a few years back. From the former I'm happy to buy at an extra premium because the Goulets and their team are friendly and helpful, but also because their website provides so many tools for comparison that I'd rather support them and have that service than buying from a cheaper source. From Anderson's I'm buying, again, because Brian and Lisa are wonderful folks, but also because they are operating a 'fairly local' B&M store, and I'd do anything I can contribute as a consumer to keep them going (where else, other than on a pen show, can you just leaf through pages and pages of ink swabs?!?). Needless to say, I avoid Amazon and Massdrop like the plaque... (not a moral issue, just a question of what I want!)

[Lady Onogaro]

This really has me worked up and feeling rather guilty.

I think you cannot solve the problems of the world singlehandedly. Just as you would not go live off the grid in the forest where you grow your own food and live with no electricity or modern conveniences to remove your carbon footprint, you cannot solve the consumerist nature of our society. I don't think you should exclude yourself from the hobby simply due to lack of means. Perhaps one day soon, you will have the means to be able to buy pens from US distributors. Then you can pass on these cheaper pens to some one else cannot afford then pens at that moment. That is just an example.

For me, I am new to the community but at this point, Brian will have all my money. His company has done more for me than any other. I went to the local pen store Dromgooles because everyone here told me that it was the happiest place on earth. I got there and started looking around. For a while no one came to help me and then eventually I noticed an employee was following me around the store and STARING. I tried asking a couple of questions but she gave such curt responses that it was obvious she had no intention of starting a dialogue or assisting me. I went to the pen counter and stood there for a while, looking at pens and waiting for someone to help me. The employee who was following me continued to stare as though I did not belong by the pen counter. Now, you have to understand, I was dressed and composed properly. I did not look like some bum off the street who had come to shoplift. I have a six figure salary, I can afford this shit! I really don't want to open this can of worms but frankly, all the white people in the store were readily being helped and I was the only non-white girl in there and I was being treated like I was about to rob the place or something. So finally I just paid for the stationary I had picked up and left. These people will not have another cent from me.

Brian's people, on the other hand, have always responded to the questions I email them and there aren't many because the videos cover so much of what I want and need to know. I will happily pay full price to them. They deserve it!

I'm so sorry you had a bad experience there. I am sad to say that I can see it happening there, though. It took quite a number of visits before I saw the friendliness that others have experienced and mentioned (and I am white). I'm not sure whether this was because I was a low-dollar buyer or just not a regular (though I have not ever spent less than $100 when I have been there, and one time I spent $200 over two days). The last time I went there, one of the brothers gave me a bottle of ink that I like. But in general, they do tend to ignore me, though they will answer questions if I ask.

I have to say that I do prefer buying online myself, too. But I use a variety of online stores, including Goulet, isellpens, ipenstore, the Andersons, Jetpens. I comparison shop and look at shipping, too.

Even if we don't go to Dromgoole's, it would be great to meet up, Pickwick. There are lots of good places to eat in that area, especially Pasha's, which has the most incredibly bread!

[Pickwick]

Even if we don't go to Dromgoole's, it would be great to meet up, Pickwick. There are lots of good places to eat in that area, especially Pasha's, which has the most incredibly bread!

I would like that very much! Sorry I did not wait for you but I realized I wouldn't have a free Saturday until March and I really wanted some proper letter writing paper instead of torn sheets from my Moleskine. Like you, I was not surprised to be ignored in the store. I don't shop in that part of town for that reason. I was very upset by the lady following me in the store though. That was uncalled for.

Anyway please message me when you guys are coming this way.

[gbryal]

Paradise Pen Co in Austin is friendly, and if Joe Lowe is there he might show you his stash of vintage Watermans. Unfortunately it's a small shop in a mall with not terribly competitively priced pens. Still, they've been nice to me no matter what I spend or how I'm dressed.

[writingrav]

Even if we don't go to Dromgoole's, it would be great to meet up, Pickwick. There are lots of good places to eat in that area, especially Pasha's, which has the most incredibly bread!

I would like that very much! Sorry I did not wait for you but I realized I wouldn't have a free Saturday until March and I really wanted some proper letter writing paper instead of torn sheets from my Moleskine. Like you, I was not surprised to be ignored in the store. I don't shop in that part of town for that reason. I was very upset by the lady following me in the store though. That was uncalled for.

Anyway please message me when you guys are coming this way.

If its any comfort, I'm white and old and the few times I've gone to Fountain Pen Hospital have had the same experience. I guess it was somehow clear I wasn't going to drop a lot of mk money. On the other hand, Art Brown's, also in NY was always very friendly but they went out of business. Go know! as my grandma used to say.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

You know, I wonder sometimes when this kind of subject arises whether people are thinking about it the wrong way around. For instance, the prices of Japanese pens in Japan is the standard price, and the price of Japanese pens in the US is the inflated price. That means that the Japanese sellers are not undercutting at all, and it is wrong for anyone to imply that they are.

Perspective.

[bluesea]

You know, I wonder sometimes when this kind of subject arises whether people are thinking about it the wrong way around. For instance, the prices of Japanese pens in Japan is the standard price, and the price of Japanese pens in the US is the inflated price. That means that the Japanese sellers are not undercutting at all, and it is wrong for anyone to imply that they are.

Perspective.

That would be the cost of doing business in America, according to BG when he poo-pooed the idea of top heavy corporate
Distributerships, and effect on retail pricing of government regulated product safety testing etc.

[tandaina]

On Brian's recent Q&A he addressed a question on under cutting. This really has me worked up and feeling rather guilty. I would like to here all your opinions. This is such a fine community full of great people who I care about dearly! The short time I've been here I have received so much kindness. I can't even begin to tell you some of the amazing things people here have done for me!
Let me expound on why I feel guilty. Recently I bough a pilot 92 demonstrator. I did not have the money to buy it from most places so I went to Amazon. I found many Japanese sellers posting around 100 bucks, couldn't afford that so I searched deeper into Amazon , which can get tricky. After 10 mins into the pits of Amazon I see 1 fine nib blue demo 92 left in stock directly from Amazon for 78.00 shipped from Amazon prime... I don't know how that is possible buy it is real. This can't be good for pilot. Perfect example of what Brian spoke about today. I was not helping this community by buying that pen at that price.
Further more my post on first impressions of my new m805. I paid 40% less then what that pelikan should cost. I contacted pelikan to confirm Martenodena as a legit authorized retailer, but am lending to the devalue of pelikan brand? Probably... I don't understand how martemodena can sell at those prices and be an authorized dealer but they do. This is a touchy topic and I don't know what response I will get... Have at it!

It's hugely complex. Do huge corporations that buy in massive bulk (and therefore get discounts from the manufacturer) often make it hard to small businesses to compete. Yes. Undoubtedly. However that's not the whole story. I rarely buy Japanese pens from American distributers because the markup is frankly, obscene. This may be due to import duties, or what the Japanese manufacturers think they can get in the US, I have no clue. But often Japanese pens sell here for almost 2x what they sell for in Japan. Sorry, that's just insane. So I buy from Japanese sellers and pay for shipping (which is very reasonable from Japan.)

That's not undercutting, that's refusing to pay unreasonable mark ups. I am sure Brian and others like him feel the squeeze and when the price difference is small ($20, $15) I'll happily buy from a place with better service and slightly higher prices. But when the price differences are immense I'm going elsewhere.

For example: Vanness Pens in Little Rock sells Bung Box ink. I could probably get it cheaper through a Japanese distributer. HOWEVER, Vanness let's me tell them what I want (even seasonal stuff that can't be had but a few months a year) and then whenever they can get their hands on that stuff they email me "hey we found that super rare Halloween ink you wanted, want us to ship you one?" (Answer: DUH.) That kind of service keeps me shopping with places like Vanness.

[Bri]

I can put my money wherever I want. That's the joy of competition. My right as a consumer. I order weekly from Goulet and I think their highest profit margin will be from their branded products and they should push those vs complaining. I'll let the vent slide for now and I'll continue to purchase my pen-related products from wherever I impulsively land on and whoever gets me my product the quickest.

[SeminarianMike]

On Brian's recent Q&A he addressed a question on under cutting. This really has me worked up and feeling rather guilty. I would like to here all your opinions. This is such a fine community full of great people who I care about dearly! The short time I've been here I have received so much kindness. I can't even begin to tell you some of the amazing things people here have done for me!
Let me expound on why I feel guilty. Recently I bough a pilot 92 demonstrator. I did not have the money to buy it from most places so I went to Amazon. I found many Japanese sellers posting around 100 bucks, couldn't afford that so I searched deeper into Amazon , which can get tricky. After 10 mins into the pits of Amazon I see 1 fine nib blue demo 92 left in stock directly from Amazon for 78.00 shipped from Amazon prime... I don't know how that is possible buy it is real. This can't be good for pilot. Perfect example of what Brian spoke about today. I was not helping this community by buying that pen at that price.
Further more my post on first impressions of my new m805. I paid 40% less then what that pelikan should cost. I contacted pelikan to confirm Martenodena as a legit authorized retailer, but am lending to the devalue of pelikan brand? Probably... I don't understand how martemodena can sell at those prices and be an authorized dealer but they do. This is a touchy topic and I don't know what response I will get... Have at it!

It's hugely complex. Do huge corporations that buy in massive bulk (and therefore get discounts from the manufacturer) often make it hard to small businesses to compete. Yes. Undoubtedly. However that's not the whole story. I rarely buy Japanese pens from American distributers because the markup is frankly, obscene. This may be due to import duties, or what the Japanese manufacturers think they can get in the US, I have no clue. But often Japanese pens sell here for almost 2x what they sell for in Japan. Sorry, that's just insane. So I buy from Japanese sellers and pay for shipping (which is very reasonable from Japan.)

That's not undercutting, that's refusing to pay unreasonable mark ups. I am sure Brian and others like him feel the squeeze and when the price difference is small ($20, $15) I'll happily buy from a place with better service and slightly higher prices. But when the price differences are immense I'm going elsewhere.

For example: Vanness Pens in Little Rock sells Bung Box ink. I could probably get it cheaper through a Japanese distributer. HOWEVER, Vanness let's me tell them what I want (even seasonal stuff that can't be had but a few months a year) and then whenever they can get their hands on that stuff they email me "hey we found that super rare Halloween ink you wanted, want us to ship you one?" (Answer: DUH.) That kind of service keeps me shopping with places like Vanness.

There's super rare Halloween ink?!!! Seriously what's it called... Halloween is kinda my thing sorry soon as I read that everything else went out the window

[katherine]

I think another thing worth mentioning is that "cheaper" sellers on Ebay/Amazon aren't hurting Pilot (or Pelikan) they're hurting other retailers like Goulet. A lot of these pricing discrepancies are the fault of manufacturers and distributors like Pilot that set different prices in different countries -- which us consumers are able to circumvent due to the internet. The prices on many (probably not all) pens from Japanese sellers is the price they sell for in stores in Japan -- for whatever reason, Pilot has much lower MSRPs in Japan.

[Haga888]

Agree. It's not the consumers fault though. Retailers should refuse to carry the product until the OEM fixes their discrepancies.

[TAYLORPUPPY]

I'll pay Brian's premium retail prices over all other foreign sellers. I don't care how deeply they slash the price. If I don't like his pen, he will let me return it. I'm not likely to have that luck with Bilbo baggins in east egypt. With that said. I don't think Brian did himself any favors with this video. I don't know if he was feeling down, maybe he was hungry and not thinking well. It was especially troubling to hear him say why he can't sell hi end platinum. I would have thought Brian would look for ways TO sell hi end platinum, as opposed to talking about why he cant.

There are highly reputable sellers in Japan that will under-cut the American dealers if you are willing to purchase online. There is nothing shifty about these sellers, and I think you should be careful about implying that ALL non-US retailers are disreputable, as you are with your "Bilbo Baggins in East Egypt" remark.

The upside of dealing with local stores is the level of service. The downside is the elevated cost. The reverse is mostly true for the good online sellers, except that in my opinion the disparity in prices is far more significant than the disparity in services.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't inferring that non US sellers are disreputable.