Do you ever...

[Sandy Fry]

Hey folks,

I posted this same topic over on FPN but wanted to post it here too so that I could catch the thoughts of a wider audience.

I was just wondering. Do any of you ever feel guilty after making a major pen purchase ( let's say $300+ ) when there are people out there who are homeless, starving or unemployed?

Most of my pens are sub $100 but I have a few " high end " limited editions that are $3000+ and sometimes I feel that the money I spent could have been used for something less of a luxury. I work hard. I am single. I don't drink or smoke. Should I feel guilty for buying something that most folks would consider an obscene amount for a pen?



Interested in your thoughts on this and whether anyone else has similar feelings.



Thanks



David

[inklord]

Indeed. Thank you for breaching this topic - it applies to any and all of our luxury purchases, of course. And in the end, a pen is a pen. This is also what let me abandon the luxury pen caterers and go for pens from manufacturers focusing on function and simple aesthetics at a modest price. Flaunting pocket jewelry in view of the fact that people are suffering from want of the most basic needs seems ludicrous at best, especially since the enormous amounts of money tied up in these status products do usually not flow back to the real working class.
Even when buying a modest pen (or any other non-essential) from a manufacturer with good corporate ethics, I often question myself if I'd not rather put that money somewhere to benefit others more directly.
David, again: thanks for raising this issue - it is so easy (and I speak for myself here) to get stuck in a mode of greed, lured by the beauty of a desired object, and forget the ugliness of the world that only we as individuals have the power to better.
One thing that helps me feel a bit better is that I sometimes find a good and well made pen in my hoard that I happen to not use any more: it usually makes a welcome gift, especially to young people (students) who are not in the financial position to waste money on pens. I also try to limit myself to a total of 20 - 25 pens.

[Miss Fountain Pen]

Maybe I should feel guilty. But on the other hand, even after accounting for international shipping, a $500 pen has a much lower carbon footprint etc. than, oh, almost any more "reasonable" $500 purchase that I could make. (I try to limit electronics. I need a computer for my work, but I try to squeeze as many years out of it as I can. I don't have a TV. I don't drive. But pens? They're pretty resource-light.) And my purchase supports artisans and small businesses (all my $300+ pens are hand-made at least in part), plus I pay VAT and customs on my purchases, and that (I would hope...) goes to help the needy. So I don't feel terribly guilty.

[jar]

No.

[bluesea]

Guilt? On the contrary, I buy this stuff to escape reality, not to indulge in it.

[Paddler]

I have never paid more than $10 for a pen (and I have lots of good ones).

That out of the way, I remember that money is the relationship between effort and stuff. You can't waste money unless you burn it or keep it in The First National Mattress. Spending money puts YOUR EFFORT into SOMETHING YOU LIKE whether that be a pen or a wad of cash in a Salvation Army kettle. From there, it moves on to someone else who makes the effort. Whether someone else wants to make that effort or whether they can or can't is a completely different issue.

[penwash]

I'll tell you how guilty I feel when I purchase my first "expensive" pen

Joking aside, I believe that the guilt in seeing hardships and poverty (only two of a bunch other ills this fallen world is plagued with) is natural and needs to be thought over continuously.

Feeling guilty for purchasing a luxury item is easier to detect because its a singular event that stands out in contrast.
On the other hand, some people spend the same amount of money on Starbucks coffee, cigar, cigarettes, video games, phone apps, dining out. Should they not feel the same guilt also?

The real question is: What occupies your mind mostly? and what you do about those thoughts?

[distracted_mom]

I'll tell you how guilty I feel when I purchase my first "expensive" pen

Joking aside, I believe that the guilt in seeing hardships and poverty (only two of a bunch other ills this fallen world is plagued with) is natural and needs to be thought over continuously.

Feeling guilty for purchasing a luxury item is easier to detect because its a singular event that stands out in contrast.
On the other hand, some people spend the same amount of money on Starbucks coffee, cigar, cigarettes, video games, phone apps, dining out. Should they not feel the same guilt also?

The real question is: What occupies your mind mostly? and what you do about those thoughts?

I do think that people are going to spend money on the things that they want to spend money on. It is easy to judge what others choose to buy. Yes, I feel guilty sometimes, although the most I've spent on a pen is $175. Cameras and lenses, on the other hand, are a different story.

No matter what, there are going to be people who have more and people who have less than you do. Sure, you could choose to spend all of our extra money on charitable giving, or spend it all on yourself. I think that most of us find a happy medium to where we are helping others, but not so much that we don't enjoy our lives.

[Kaputnik]

No, I don't feel any guilt of the kind described.

I haven't yet reached $200 for a single pen. After paying over $100 for the fourth or fifth time, and looking at my pen expense spreadsheet for the total spent on "fountain pen stuff", I may have felt foolish once or twice. But I got over it.

As to whether I do enough to help other people, known or unknown to myself, this is not the forum I would choose for self examination or confession. But some degree of self indulgence is compatible with concern for others.

[zygote]

No, I don't. I factor both donations and hobbies into my budget and the amounts are independent of each other. Granted I have to save to afford a $300 pen, but I worked, hard, for the money to save for it and I don't see how my purchasing it effects anything other than my savings account.

[stub]

I was just wondering. Do any of you ever feel guilty after making a major pen purchase ( let's say $300+ ) when there are people out there who are homeless, starving or unemployed?

Yes. Though I personally have never broken the $300 barrier, I have spent close to that a couple times, but yes, to be totally honest.

Should I feel guilty for buying something that most folks would consider an obscene amount for a pen?

No. I know that seems contradictory but there you go.

[Sandy Fry]

Thanks for the input folks.

It's not like I don't donate to worthwhile causes. I often give cash to the homeless folks who hang around the gas station where I usually fill up, drop some cash in the Salvation Army kettle or anonymously pay for someone's meal at a restaurant. However, I still feel that sometimes I could do a little more.
I agree, there are always going to be folks who have more than me and folks who will have less than me but I still feel a little guilty when I go out to eat, sign the check with my $2000 pen and then pass a homeless guy on my way to my car. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most " regular/normal " folks that I know think it is crazy for me spend more than a couple of dollars on a pen.
Again, thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

David

[stub]

I posted this same topic over on FPN.

That should go swimmingly.

I don't drink or smoke.

Never to later to start.

[Neo]

David,

You are a good hearted person who thinks about the larger world around you. The fact that you even question how else pen funds could be used is a sure sign of this. That said we all work hard for our money and should be allowed to enjoy ourselves...

[Lady Onogaro]

I haven't spent that kind of money on a pen, but yes, I have often felt that the money would be better spent on other causes. In fact, I would say that this has made me more conscious of the need to be a regular contributor to various outreach missions than I might otherwise be. I am affiliated with an Episcopalian church that has as its mission charitable giving (and doing). So there is always an activity going on to fulfill Christ's teachings in Matthew 25 (visiting those in prison, clothing the poor, visiting the sick, etc.).

[inklord]

In many of the above posts, there shines a sense of balance through the potential gloom these questions might stir up: the important point seems to be that we don't forget our obligations to the human community over our desires for beautiful objects. As a Daoist, I am strongly cautioned against ownership of precious items by my religion, as hoarding rare and precious things invokes jealousy and may lead others astray: "if you do not value rare treasures, you will stop others from stealing/if people do not see desirables, they will not be agitated" (Lao Tse, the daodejing, chapter 3). As usual, there is a balance, and the whole situation becomes only precarious when our desires would prevent us from doing good in equal measure. It is obvious that many of the above posting members strive to find that balance. Also, it should be noted, that purchasing an artisan's work for an adequate price keeps valuable arts and skills a part of our culture, and provides such artisans with a livelihood.

[penwash]

Thanks for the input folks.

It's not like I don't donate to worthwhile causes. I often give cash to the homeless folks who hang around the gas station where I usually fill up, drop some cash in the Salvation Army kettle or anonymously pay for someone's meal at a restaurant. However, I still feel that sometimes I could do a little more.
I agree, there are always going to be folks who have more than me and folks who will have less than me but I still feel a little guilty when I go out to eat, sign the check with my $2000 pen and then pass a homeless guy on my way to my car. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most " regular/normal " folks that I know think it is crazy for me spend more than a couple of dollars on a pen.
Again, thanks for the input. I really appreciate it.

David

David,

The fact is, the $2000 pen has nothing to do with the homeless guy you just walk past by.
You didn't purchase the pen with the intention to rob the guy from anything. It was just a purchase that you decided to do because you think that the pen is worth that much.

Now, let's say the thought of the homeless guy moved your heart to do some research about what is going on in the community to combat homelessness, which then you participate in and find out that you enjoy helping others.

When that happen, you still have your $2000 pen, but now you know that in addition to owning a $2000 pen, you also give your time to help others in need. The portion of your mind that is dedicated towards yourself is diminishing, and the part that thinks of others is increasing. That in the long run will give you the balance (and peace of mind) that you're seeking now.

So it comes down to again, what is in your mind and what you decided to do about it.

[Miss Fountain Pen]

I agree, there are always going to be folks who have more than me and folks who will have less than me but I still feel a little guilty when I go out to eat, sign the check with my $2000 pen and then pass a homeless guy on my way to my car.

Here's the thing. You could have given that $2000 to the homeless guy or to a charity. Was this something you ever seriously considered? If you did, then I can see why you might feel bad about having decided to spend the cash on a luxury item instead. But if you were going to spend the money on yourself anyway, I really don't see why the fact that you spent it on a pen would be particularly problematic. So, if you had spent that money on eating out in fancy restaurants, or if you had spent it on renovating your kitchen, or if you had spent it on a vacation, would that somehow have been better (in a moral sense) than spending it on a pen? I don't see how.

[Hawk]

I certainly don't feel bad to purchase and enjoy an expensive non-necessity. On the other hand, I donate to chharity and it makes me feel good also. In my mind, I strike a balance that I can live with. When I was young, we didn't have much, but was enough. My parents immigrated from Sweden as teenagers, didn't know anyone, made good in life and taught me values that I retain. They pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps, without charity.

[TAYLORPUPPY]

NO!