FPG Refuges Status Area: The 2020 FPN Diaspora

[Pterodactylus]

To be honest imho the major problem was not the FJS troll...

Very easy to say when you aren't the target.

Not the primary target, but a secondary.

And in opposite to your opponent the admin did not took care of mine.

[kazoolaw]

Is this actually documented anywhere?

Sorry I was unclear. I was referring to posts by members.

[Jon Szanto]

It seems to me much more likely that the board has been effectively abandoned by the admin (Eric, but you might as well call him Oz) and the members left here muddle along as best they can, hoping like hell that they aren't the unwitting subjects of some sort of long-running sociological experiment.

This.

I have no information or any indications to the contrary. It took days and days of reporting posts, reporting threads, and multiple persons attempting known contacts to the owner/admin of the site (Eric) before anything happened. And then all the deletion activity took place in a very short amount of time, with no notice to anyone. There was not one response or reply to emails sent to him, nor any follow up. It is my understanding he has no interest in the board but also no interest in turning it over to anyone else. There are no other mods or admins.

It is a situation no one would actually want, and one where malicious behavior could escalate even further before anything - *if* anything - could or would be done about it.

I honestly think the people who use this forum, especially those that have stuck it out for a long time, deserve more respect. I've stood up for FPG on numerous occasions, for what little that means, and to have this recent bit of noise go down and not one single word from the guy I'm trying to get in touch with really does give me pause. And, when I don't keep it in check, piss me off royally.

Nothing can be done, though. Move on.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Freedom of expression or moderation: can the two reasonably exist in the same space?

Possible options include (but are not limited to):

1. No moderation at all, everyone is free to express themselves any way they like. Between-members moderation likely only to be via peer pressure, which is a form of bullying to those who truly believe in total freedom of expression.

2. Moderation based on the unrecorded whim of the moderator, who may or may not respond to being bugged by members about issues.

3. Moderation based on a simple set of rules and clear consequences, with individuals held to them if they sign up to be members.


In an ideal world option 1 would be nice, but the ideal world kind of rests on the notion that people are generally decent, courteous and well-behaved. And perhaps mostly we are...

Option 3 is my preference. Rules don't have to be that complicated, and if they reduce the excesses without significantly diluting content, I'm okay with that (based on my understanding that to exist in a community/society is to accept limitations in some areas).


Other than that, what other approach is there?

[catbert]

We can choose to moderate ourselves (in moderation) instead of others. That, at least, is under our control. Most, I suppose, do — not necessarily limiting what is expressed but considering how it is expressed and how one responds to what others express. A conversation.

[Jon Szanto]

To be honest imho the major problem was not the FJS troll...

Very easy to say when you aren't the target.

Not the primary target, but a secondary.

Like I said...

[Jon Szanto]

We should keep in mind that ANY talk of moderation, outside of our own self-restraint, is a waste of typing and energy, given the circumstances. Totally pointless.

[Chrissy]

It seems to me much more likely that the board has been effectively abandoned by the admin (Eric, but you might as well call him Oz) and the members left here muddle along as best they can, hoping like hell that they aren't the unwitting subjects of some sort of long-running sociological experiment.

This.

I have no information or any indications to the contrary. It took days and days of reporting posts, reporting threads, and multiple persons attempting known contacts to the owner/admin of the site (Eric) before anything happened. And then all the deletion activity took place in a very short amount of time, with no notice to anyone. There was not one response or reply to emails sent to him, nor any follow up. It is my understanding he has no interest in the board but also no interest in turning it over to anyone else. There are no other mods or admins.

It is a situation no one would actually want, and one where malicious behavior could escalate even further before anything - *if* anything - could or would be done about it.

I honestly think the people who use this forum, especially those that have stuck it out for a long time, deserve more respect. I've stood up for FPG on numerous occasions, for what little that means, and to have this recent bit of noise go down and not one single word from the guy I'm trying to get in touch with really does give me pause. And, when I don't keep it in check, piss me off royally.

Nothing can be done, though. Move on.

Fixes are still being done.

I have continued reporting random pages of posts I found in some threads that still contained offensive thanks. One page was in this thread, one page was in "just some pen pics from time to time", and one was in "what was the last book that you read." They have all now been fixed so I know Eric is still returning and fixing them. Things are still happening quietly behind the scenes.

If you spot a rogue offensive thanks and report it then it will be removed.

[Jon Szanto]

They have all now been fixed so I know Eric is still returning and fixing them. Things are still happening quietly behind the scenes.

You know that we are pals and all, and I appreciate the updates, and appreciate that something is happening.

However, this completely glosses over the underlying situation. It gives no comfort whatsoever that attention will be paid in the future, and you don't even know if anything is being done on stuff reported by other people. There is no transparency and no communication and that means it could all happen again. I'd like to know that there is someone who is minimally accountable and accessible to ALL members of the forum. I don't know that this is the case at the moment.

Am I being too hardline in all this? I don't know. I know that I don't want to see a repeat of malicious activity goes unanswered, or fixed way too late.

*****

Meh, I'm sick of hearing myself say these things, you guys probably are, too. Sorry.

[Chrissy]

This on a forum which opposes banning without explanation, deletions without transparency, and anonymous moderators.

Is this actually documented anywhere? Most community boards have a Code of Conduct, or some other document that describes what the parameters of acceptable behaviour are, how the boards will be moderated and what, if any, the appeal process is. As far as I can tell, there is none of that here.

I think you might find some in the FAQ tab and a couple of random Forum Rules that appear at the bottom of some pages.

[Chrissy]

They have all now been fixed so I know Eric is still returning and fixing them. Things are still happening quietly behind the scenes.

You know that we are pals and all, and I appreciate the updates, and appreciate that something is happening.

However, this completely glosses over the underlying situation. It gives no comfort whatsoever that attention will be paid in the future, and you don't even know if anything is being done on stuff reported by other people. There is no transparency and no communication and that means it could all happen again. I'd like to know that there is someone who is minimally accountable and accessible to ALL members of the forum. I don't know that this is the case at the moment.

Am I being too hardline in all this? I don't know. I know that I don't want to see a repeat of malicious activity goes unanswered, or fixed way too late.

*****

Meh, I'm sick of hearing myself say these things, you guys probably are, too. Sorry.

I know for certain that I'm not the only member still reporting these things when they are spotted. :-)

[Jon Szanto]

I know for certain that I'm not the only member still reporting these things when they are spotted. :-)

You do realize that isn't transparency, that is "a few people in the background talking to one another". I'm glad it appears things are being corrected, but the underlying issues are still there.

[silverlifter]

This on a forum which opposes banning without explanation, deletions without transparency, and anonymous moderators.

Is this actually documented anywhere? Most community boards have a Code of Conduct, or some other document that describes what the parameters of acceptable behaviour are, how the boards will be moderated and what, if any, the appeal process is. As far as I can tell, there is none of that here.

I think you might find some in the FAQ tab and a couple of random Forum Rules that appear at the bottom of some pages.

I'll quote them in full, because they support the point I was making:

General Rules
1. All posts must be written in English.
2. Don't spam/abuse any other member via e-mail or Private Messages.

For breaking above rules you may be warned/banned appropriately!

According to which, none of the troll posts were in contravention of the rules. So, reductio ad absurdum, their ban was unjustified...

[Jon Szanto]

I'll quote them in full, because they support the point I was making:

General Rules
1. All posts must be written in English.
2. Don't spam/abuse any other member via e-mail or Private Messages.

For breaking above rules you may be warned/banned appropriately!

According to which, none of the troll posts were in contravention of the rules. So, reductio ad absurdum, their ban was unjustified...

I received harassing "Visitor Messages" from the FJS account. While not explicitly delineated in #2 above, I think it is clearly an oversight in the FAQ and considered justifiable expulsion.

[silverlifter]

I'll quote them in full, because they support the point I was making:

General Rules
1. All posts must be written in English.
2. Don't spam/abuse any other member via e-mail or Private Messages.

For breaking above rules you may be warned/banned appropriately!

According to which, none of the troll posts were in contravention of the rules. So, reductio ad absurdum, their ban was unjustified...

I received harassing "Visitor Messages" from the FJS account. While not explicitly delineated in #2 above, I think it is clearly an oversight in the FAQ and considered justifiable expulsion.

I wasn't aware. I was trying to make the point that the "rules" are sufficiently threadbare to allow conduct that most, I would hope, would consider to be totally unacceptable. Obviously, I think the troll should have been banned and his IP address/es blocked.

[kazoolaw]

Tag for this Thread, as appears on the bottom of the page: "long live wim." Sentiment or sarcasm, you decide.

[Jon Szanto]

Tag for this Thread, as appears on the bottom of the page: "long live wim." Sentiment or sarcasm, you decide.

Oh, I'd just chalk it up to passive aggression and/or lack of courage to say it outright. BTW, thanks for your contributions to the conversation.

[TSherbs]

They have all now been fixed so I know Eric is still returning and fixing them. Things are still happening quietly behind the scenes.

You know that we are pals and all, and I appreciate the updates, and appreciate that something is happening.

However, this completely glosses over the underlying situation. It gives no comfort whatsoever that attention will be paid in the future, and you don't even know if anything is being done on stuff reported by other people. There is no transparency and no communication and that means it could all happen again. I'd like to know that there is someone who is minimally accountable and accessible to ALL members of the forum. I don't know that this is the case at the moment.

Am I being too hardline in all this? I don't know. I know that I don't want to see a repeat of malicious activity goes unanswered, or fixed way too late.

*****

Meh, I'm sick of hearing myself say these things, you guys probably are, too. Sorry.

These efforts, although not sufficient for all you seek, are at least something, and it helps to know that others are working to spur on the editing. I sent a notice yesterday (when I saw that my faux-moniker was still visible) but you never know if anyone is reading them. I still feel bad about how you were targeted from the start. It was vile and wrong and I don't care that there were no explicit rules to the contrary. And then when it proliferated, it was just twisted-sick. A kind of pathology, really. It was the worst thing that I have seen in 7 years here. Hopefully, we are done with it.

[Jon Szanto]

I wasn't aware. I was trying to make the point that the "rules" are sufficiently threadbare to allow conduct that most, I would hope, would consider to be totally unacceptable. Obviously, I think the troll should have been banned and his IP address/es blocked.

Oh, what you pointed out was fine, I should have been more careful during the quoting. I understood where you were going.

[silverlifter]

I wasn't aware. I was trying to make the point that the "rules" are sufficiently threadbare to allow conduct that most, I would hope, would consider to be totally unacceptable. Obviously, I think the troll should have been banned and his IP address/es blocked.

Oh, what you pointed out was fine, I should have been more careful during the quoting. I understood where you were going.

Good. You have had to deal with enough shittiness here. I certainly didn't want to add to it, even inadvertently!